He told us during that time that in the previous day and that night that there were several times when he could have escaped; he was relating to the windows and the make-up of the Pensacola Police Department. And we took him to the bathroom one time, I believe, and there was an open window right to the outside, and a few other things that, you know, we discussed with him at this time. He didn’t want to escape, and that he felt that this was the time in his – the time in his life that maybe he could tell somebody what he had done in the past.
Q: What was the closest he ever got in telling you what his problem was?
A: I believe it was this night. I would have to, of course, listen to all the tapes to make sure. I believe it was this night that he talked about at one time he had restrained one of his girlfriends, or something to that effect. Or restrained her in a manner, you know, of tying up her arm, her hands, or something.
Q: Did he talk about harming females?
A: In what way?
Q: Well, I mean did he use that terminology?
A: I don’t believe he ever pinpointed specifics. He would always more or less go around the bush.
Q: You say he talked about voyeurism, is that how you got involved in this discussion to start with? Is that – what does he – let me see if I can get you to a jumping off place. Did he start out by talking about his life as a young boy, and then as going to college, and –
A: Pretty much so.
Q: All right. As briefly as you can cover the subject, what did he tell you about that part of his life and that –
A: Well, it’s kind of hard to bunch it all together. He would start out, you know, talking about his life, the whole story of his life, and then he would talk about certain aspects of it, and then he would jump back. Because he wanted to, you know, more or less give us an outlook to understand him. That’s what he told us, he wanted us to understand him.
Q: Well, try to consolidate it then. Maybe not in the sequence that he told you, but give me the substance of what he told you even though you might put it in a different order than what he said. If you took it from a chronological viewpoint of what he told you from when he first began to describe his life, you know, and leading up to the part where he got into trouble with the law.
A: Okay. He talked about uh – I believe that night he talked about a police officer that had stopped him, I believe we talked about it more than one time too. We talked about as far as where a police officer stopped him in a neighborhood. He in his possession had some handcuffs and –
Q: Was this in the DaRonch – was this when he was arrested in the DaRonch case in Utah?
A: The girl that was kidnapped from the shopping center?
Q: Right.
A: I believe uh – we talked about so many things, you know. I’m trying to remember whether or not he connected that at the time. He had some pantyhose or stockings, a bag of sorts, in his VW.
Q: All right. Well, I’m familiar with that. That was in Utah, and that was several months after the DaRonch kidnapping; does that sound right?
A: Yes.
Q: He was in his car in the neighborhood and a police officer pulled him over?
A: Right.
Q: All right. Did he go back and tell you about his college days in Washington?
A: Yes, he did. He talked about the college atmosphere, as far as him liking – well, why he came to Tallahassee in fact; him liking the college atmosphere and that he could get in among the crowd of people could obtain a new identity. He is used to, you know, the surroundings of a college, the college people, and what have you.
Q: What did he tell you about voyeurism?
A: Let’s see. The best I can recall is that he – after he mentioned voyeurism, we – I believe we asked him if this was the start of his problem. He uh – I don’t think he gave us specific cases where he would go around, you know, looking in the windows or, you know, that. But he did use -- you know, he stated, you know, that he was a voyeur.
Q: Did he tell you that he obtained any sexual gratification from doing that?
A: I don’t believe so.
Q: Did he ever tell you anything about actions that he almost took?
A: Pardon me?
Q: Well, if he would have gotten maybe inspired to do something but then was able to restrain himself, to keep himself from doing anything.
A: I told you about the incident with the bicycle.
Q: Okay. Did he become emotional at all during these times?
A: Yes, he did.
Q: Did he cry at times?
A: Yes.
Q: How frequently was that?
A: Very infrequent.
Q: Did he seem to have remorse for something at that time?
A: It was usually at the point where he was explaining to us that he wanted to tell us, he wanted to get this off his chest. I believe he stated that the previous day, I believe it was, that he asked to see a minister, and he had seen him. He thought he could get everything off his chest by telling someone; and this didn’t give him the relief that he thought he would get.
Q: Did you keep coming back to the Chi Omega case to try to get some specific information from him on that?
A; I didn’t harp at it, or neither did the other two. Because he more or less wanted us to understand him. Every time we started to talk about Tallahassee specifically, he did not want to answer any questions concerning Tallahassee or the murders.
Q; Did he seem to be somewhat concerned with control or lack of control?
A: Control of what?
Q: Over what he was doing, or whatever general problem it was that he had?
A: Lack of control.
Q: Did he talk to you about efforts he had made to try to bring his problem under control?
A: Other than having a degree uh – I guess he has a degree. I don’t know if it is in psychology or uh – when he was incarcerated, he did not have the problem, that the problem dissipated. When he was out the problem became greater to him.
Q: Did he associate anything with the heightening of the problem, any kind of stimulus?
A: I believe alcohol was mentioned.
Q: Was there anything about pornography?
A; I believe we asked him about pornography, but uh – I can’t remember exactly whether or not he denied if that gave him any great stimulus or not.
Q: The word problem became sort of shorthand as a reference to something else?
A: Yes, I would say so.
Q: How specific did he get into defining that term? I mean obviously if you all were talking about a problem you had to have some understanding of what it stood for, didn’t you?
A; In what realm?
Q: Well, I mean that all through these transcripts there’s references to, Ted, you have a problem; we have talked about problems. What is it that you all meant by the problem – the term, the problem?
A: I think there was a certain understanding to everybody that Ted had a problem that he could not control, and that he wanted to tell us about. He kept asking us to talk with him and help him because, as I said before, that he had blocked from telling anybody.
Q: Well, was this a problem that had any criminal aspect to it?
A: We assumed the problem was from the alleged murders.
Q: What made you assume that?
A: From lengthy discussions with him as far as all of his life and uh – of course, you know, as far as the idea of a problem, I guess that would be more of my personal, you know, opinion.
Q: Well, did he ever say anything that a reasonable person would assume would be an admission that there was a criminal problem?
A: Well, he stated, you know, to us that the evidence was there, you know, to find it.
It’s clear from this portion of the deposition that defense attorney, Mike Minerva, was trying to back Bund
y out of the incriminating statements he’d made to the investigators when the interrogations began soon after his capture. It was an uphill battle for the defense, and in the end, would be unsuccessful.
Q: The evidence of what?
A: Talking about the Chi Omega murders.
Q: When was that statement made?
A: I believe it was that night. I would have to go through those other transcripts and see if it was said in any of the other reports.
Q: Is it on the transcript?
A: It may be, I don’t know.
At this portion of the transcript, there is much back and forth with little revelation coming forth concerning the case, so from this point forward, I will be leaving out what I deem are unimportant or redundant statements, adding only those portions that I believe will be of interest to the readers.
Q: Was Mr. Bundy being asked about cases other than the Chi Omega case when he got over here to Tallahassee?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What other cases?
A: The Lake City case.
Q: Did you ever hear him make any statements about that case?
A: Bundy?
Q: Yes, sir.
A: Yes.
Q: What did you hear?
A: Okay. We had talked with him as far as – I don’t – we were talking with him in relation to Lake City. The little girl that was murdered over there was not found at the time, but there was a search going on. A photograph was brought to us over there from Lake City of the little girl, and it was showed to Mr. Bundy. He said something to the effect that, you know, uh – the best that I can recall it was something to the effect that, you know, we wanted to find the little girl and uh – ‘you don’t want this’ – I am trying to put it in his exact words; I can’t remember exactly how it was. At one point we got out of talking about Lake City and were talking about, you know, the number of people that he might have or might not have had this problem with, you know, the matter of figures. We sort of wanted to know how many people we were talking about. And of course, at this point we had the information from Colorado.
Q: And what did he say?
A: As to what?
Q: As to the number of people? I mean did he make any response?
A: Yes, he did. He made a response to the fact that I understood that it was over 100. Now, whether he was, you know, dead serious about it; I don’t know.
Q: Was that statement made over in Tallahassee or in Pensacola?
A: Here.
Q: During some of this time there were some efforts being made to work on a deal, or work out some kind of agreement that he was trying to get, and you all were talking about; and there is mention of it here in these tapes.
A: Right.
Q: What did Mr. Bundy say that could reasonably be interpreted as an admission or an acknowledgment that he had some responsibility for these murders? I could read, of course, what is in the transcript itself; but I’m speaking of things that are not written down here. I’m merely asking for your recollection of it.
A: I get the feeling that you’re asking me for an assumption on my part.
Q: Well, somewhat I guess I am. As you know from reading this there is a lot of interpretation that goes into it. But I also know that I don’t have the full conversation because they were not all recorded. So what I am asking you is for things outside of these transcripts, that you remember, that could be termed some sort of admission that he made. It is very difficult to ask specifically because I wasn’t there and I don’t know what the questions were. But you were there.
The deposition continues, and the remainder is an attempt by the defense to discredit the detectives, because Bundy had never actually admitted to the murders and, as such, they had no evidence against him based on the statements he’d made to them during the interrogations. Without question, Bundy had alluded to his guilt at certain points in these interviews, and the defense would gain little ground here.
What follows are statements Ted Bundy made to Detective Donald Patchen and other Florida investigators during the same interview. After Bundy was arrested in Pensacola, Florida, he did not reveal his real name for a time, therefore, the police identified him as “Doe” for the first question or two, but then Doe disappears and he’s identified as Bundy. Why there was an abrupt change in the same Q & A is not explained.
Bundy Statements
1. Bundy admits being in Sherrod’s:
Patchen: Do you recall stealing cards out of Sherrod’s; it’s a bar they have around FSU?
Doe: Yes, I recall being there. Yeah.
2. Voluntariness of Bundy’s confession:
Chapman: Okay. And uh, after talking with these people, uh, I believe during this time that they were here you told me that later on when uh, they had left and (you) desired to talk to us, in relation to any incident or whatever you wanted to talk to us uh, without these individuals present, is this correct?
Bundy: Yes, I approached you and said that I wanted to talk to you later.
3. Lived at the Oak and used – used Chris Hagen name and Washington Street address.
Bodiford: When you registered, when you rented that room in Tallahassee, did you use the name and address in Ann Arbor?
Bundy: Mmm …
Bodiford: Did you pick somebody’s I.D. in Ann Arbor?
Bundy: Didn’t do a thing in Ann Arbor, didn’t pick up an I.D. that was, the name and address that I gave to the Tallahassee apartment was just grasped out of thin air except …
Bodiford: Made it up?
Bundy: Except for the (mumble) I recall the Washington Street in Ann Arbor.
Bundy: So that’s all there is for right now as far as that name. I don’t know where Chris Hagen came from. I don’t know a Chris Hagen, and I didn’t pick up an I.D. of any kind.
4. Why he picked Tallahassee:
Bundy: See, I didn’t plan on staying in Atlanta. I knew I was coming south. Now, let me get back to Michigan, we wanted to find out how I got to Tallahassee.
Chapman: Yeah.
Bundy: Now, why, what was I gonna do. Ok. See, I, I knew I was gonna come to a place in Florida that had a college campus. A large college campus. Now I didn’t know anything about Tallahassee. I didn’t know Tallahassee from…
Patchen: You knew that you were … can you … you said you knew you were gonna come to a campus in Tallahassee.
Bundy: Well yeah, sure because I know how to operate in and around college campuses. I knew I would pick up an I.D. I know how to be a student, I know how to look like a student, I know how to act like a student.
Patchen: Oh, I see.
Bundy: I blend in.
Bundy: Yeah, right. So it’s just, all this is just almost random in a way. Superstitious. And so then I came to the catalog for Florida State University. And looked at it and it says there’s a place called Tallahassee. Tallahassee was where it’s at. I looked at it and said well it’s not too far from the ocean, um, it looked right. Why it looked right I don’t know.
5. Got to Tallahassee – went to “The Oaks”:
Bundy: The bookstore was open that day ‘cause it was the early part of the quarter. It was a Sunday, but it was open on Sunday. So I put some of my stuff in one of those lockers in the bookstore on campus. And I started walking up and down the streets in the neighborhood or in the area surrounding Tallahassee, the university. Looking for a “For Rent” sign. Anything. And uh, I had misfortune finally of, the only place that had a sign out, which was a room for rent, which is all I could afford at the time. And I wanted to get a place quick ‘cause I didn’t want to, I didn’t know where I’d stay. There was no Y in the area. So there was The Oaks or whatever they call it. And it’s really a rat hole.
6. Bundy says he never went into Sherrod’s until first week of February. Admits knowing band at The Oaks.
Patchen: D
id you spend a lot of time there, you know, where you stole this credit card in Sherrod’s, with people or anything like that?
Bundy: I never went into Sherrod’s.
Patchen: You know where I’m talking about?
Bundy: Um hum. I never went into Sherrod’s until maybe a week and a half ago.
Patchen: A week and a half ago?
Bundy: That, and you’ll find as you look back over some of the stolen cards you’ll be able to verify that I can’t tell you the exact date but it wasn’t you know, more than a week or two ago at the most.
Patchen: You’ve got to have credit cards on Jo Ann Hale, on the 3rd and the 4th, she can’t remember.
Bundy: Oh, what, in February?
Patchen: Yeah.
Bundy: Yeah, well, what is that, about two weeks ago?
Patchen: Yeah, I guess it would be, yeah, do they have bands in there? I haven’t ever been in there.
Bundy: No, it’s just a discotheque kind of thing.
Patchen: Disco?
Bundy: It’s too crowded and noisy, normally the sound is just unbearable. You know how those places are.
Patchen: Did you make any friends in Tallahassee or talk to them or make acquaintances?
Bundy: The only I made, the only acquaintances that I made were in the house that I lived in and those were only passing. I was kind of surprised they had a band that lived on the floor I lived on, unemployed band.
Ted Bundy's Murderous Mysteries Page 17
