“Just as, bhikkhus, when rain pours down in thick droplets on a mountain top, the water flows down along the slope and fills the cleft, gullies, and creeks; these being full fill up the pools; these being full fill up the lakes; these being full fill up the streams; these being full fill up the rivers; and these being full fill up the great ocean;70 so too, with ignorance as proximate cause, volitional formations [come to be]; with volitional formations as proximate cause, consciousness … with liberation as proximate cause, the knowledge of destruction.”
24 (4) Wanderers of Other Sects
At Rājagaha in the Bamboo Grove.
(i)
Then, in the morning, the Venerable Sāriputta dressed and, taking bowl and robe, entered Rājagaha for alms. Then it occurred to him: “It is still too early to walk for alms in Rājagaha. Let me go to the park of the wanderers of other sects.”
Then the Venerable Sāriputta [33] went to the park of the wanderers of other sects. He exchanged greetings with those wanderers and, when they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side. The wanderers then said to him:
“Friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that suffering is created by oneself; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that suffering is created by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another.71 Now, friend Sāriputta, what does the ascetic Gotama say about this? What does he teach? How should we answer if we are to state what has been said by the ascetic Gotama and not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact? And how should we explain in accordance with the Dhamma so that no reasonable consequence of our assertion would give ground for criticism?”72
“Friends, the Blessed One has said that suffering is dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by the Blessed One and would not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.
“Therein, friends, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by oneself, that is conditioned by contact.73 Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by another, that too is conditioned by contact. Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another, that too is conditioned by contact. [34] Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another, that too is conditioned by contact.
“Therein, friends, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by oneself, it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact. Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by another, it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact. Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another, it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact. Also, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another, it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.”
(ii)
The Venerable Ānanda heard this conversation between the Venerable Sāriputta and the wanderers of other sects. Then, when he had walked for alms in Rājagaha and had returned from the alms round, after his meal he approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and reported to the Blessed One the entire conversation between the Venerable Sāriputta and those wanderers of other sects. [The Blessed One said:]
“Good, good, Ānanda! Anyone answering rightly would answer just as Sāriputta has done. I have said, Ānanda, that suffering is dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by me and would not misrepresent me with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.
“Therein, Ānanda, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by oneself ... [35] … and those who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another, that too is conditioned by contact.
“Therein, Ānanda, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that suffering is created by oneself ... and those who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another, it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.
“On one occasion, Ānanda, I was dwelling right here in Rājagaha, in the Bamboo Grove, the Squirrel Sanctuary. Then, in the morning, I dressed and, taking bowl and robe, I entered Rājagaha for alms. Then it occurred to me: ‘It is still too early to walk for alms in Rājagaha. Let me go to the park of the wanderers of other sects.’ Then I went to the park of the wanderers of other sects. I exchanged greetings with those wanderers and, when we had concluded our greetings and cordial talk, I sat down to one side. The wanderers then said to me as I was sitting to one side: … (the wanderers ask exactly the same question as they had asked Sāriputta and receive an identical reply) [36] … it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.”
“It is wonderful, venerable sir! It is amazing, venerable sir! How the entire meaning can be stated by a single phrase! Can this same meaning be stated in detail in a way that is deep and deep in implications?”74
“Well then, Ānanda, clear up that same matter yourself.”
“Venerable sir, if they were to ask me: ‘Friend Ānanda, what is the source of aging-and-death, what is its origin, from what is it born and produced?’—being asked thus, I would answer thus: ‘Friends, aging-and-death has birth as its source, birth as its origin; it is born and produced from birth.’ Being asked thus, I would answer in such a way. [37]
“Venerable sir, if they were to ask me: ‘Friend Ānanda, what is the source of birth, what is its origin, from what is it born and produced?’—being asked thus, I would answer thus: ‘Friends, birth has existence as its source, existence as its origin; it is born and produced from existence…. Existence has clinging as its source ... Clinging has craving as its source ... Craving has feeling as its source ... Feeling has contact as its source ... Contact has the six sense bases as its source, the six sense bases as its origin; it is born and produced from the six sense bases. But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of the six bases for contact comes cessation of contact; with the cessation of contact, cessation of feeling; with the cessation of feeling, cessation of craving; with the cessation of craving, cessation of clinging; with the cessation of clinging, cessation of existence; with the cessation of existence, cessation of birth; with the cessation of birth, aging-and-death, sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and despair cease. Such is the cessation of this whole mass of suffering.’ Being asked thus, venerable sir, I would answer in such a way.”
25 (5) Bhūmija
At Sāvatthı̄.
(i)
Then, in the evening, the Venerable Bhūmija emerged from seclusion and approached the Venerable S̄riputta.75 [38] He exchanged greetings with the Venerable Sāriputta and, when they had concluded their greetings and cordial talk, he sat down to one side and said to him:
“Friend Sāriputta, some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that
pleasure and pain are created by oneself; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another; some ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another.76 Now, friend Sāriputta, what does the Blessed One say about this? What does he teach? How should we answer if we are to state what has been said by the Blessed One and not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact? And how should we explain in accordance with the Dhamma so that no reasonable consequence of our assertion would give ground for criticism?”
“Friend, the Blessed One has said that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by the Blessed One and would not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.
“Therein, friend, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case that is conditioned by contact.
“Therein, friends, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by another, and those who maintain that pleasure and pain are created both by oneself and by another, and those [39] who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.”
(ii)
The Venerable Ānanda heard this conversation between the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Bhūmija. He then approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and reported to the Blessed One the entire conversation between the Venerable Sāriputta and the Venerable Bhūmija. [The Blessed One said:]
“Good, good, Ānanda! Anyone answering rightly would answer just as Sāriputta has done. I have said, Ānanda, that pleasure and pain are dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by me and would not misrepresent me with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.
“Therein, Ānanda, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself ... and those who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously … in each case that is conditioned by contact.
“Therein, Ānanda, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins, proponents of kamma, who maintain that pleasure and pain are created by oneself ... and those who maintain that pleasure and pain have arisen fortuitously … in each case it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.
(iii)
“Ānanda, when there is the body, because of bodily volition pleasure and pain arise [40] internally; when there is speech, because of verbal volition pleasure and pain arise internally; when there is the mind, because of mental volition pleasure and pain arise internally—and with ignorance as condition.77 “Either on one’s own initiative, Ᾱnanda one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or prompted by others one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally. Either deliberately, Ānanda, one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or undeliberately one generates that bodily volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally.78
“Either on one’s own initiative, Ānanda, one generates that verbal volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or prompted by others one generates that verbal volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally. Either deliberately, Ānanda, one generates that verbal volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or undeliberately one generates that verbal volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally.
“Either on one’s own initiative, Ānanda, one generates that mental volitional formation79 conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or prompted by others one generates that mental volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally. Either deliberately, Ānanda, one generates that mental volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally; or undeliberately one generates that mental volitional formation conditioned by which pleasure and pain arise internally.
“Ignorance is comprised within these states.80 But with the remainderless fading away and cessation of ignorance that body does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally; that speech does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally; that mind does not exist conditioned by which [41] that pleasure and pain arise internally.81 That field does not exist, that site does not exist, that base does not exist, that foundation does not exist conditioned by which that pleasure and pain arise internally.”82
26 (6) Upavāṇa
At Sāvatthı̄. Then the Venerable Upavāṇa approached the Blessed One, paid homage to him, sat down to one side, and said to him:83
“Venerable sir, some ascetics and brahmins maintain that suffering is created by oneself; some ascetics and brahmins maintain that suffering is created by another; some ascetics and brahmins maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another; some ascetics and brahmins maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another. Now, venerable sir, what does the Blessed One say about this? What does he teach? How should we answer if we are to state what has been said by the Blessed One and not misrepresent him with what is contrary to fact? And how should we explain in accordance with the Dhamma so that no reasonable consequence of our assertion would give ground for criticism?”
“Upavāṇa, I have said that suffering is dependently arisen. Dependent on what? Dependent on contact. If one were to speak thus one would be stating what has been said by me and would not misrepresent me with what is contrary to fact; one would explain in accordance with the Dhamma, and no reasonable consequence of one’s assertion would give ground for criticism.
“Therein, Upavāṇa, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins who maintain that suffering is created by oneself, and those who maintain that suffering is created by another, and those who maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another, and those who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case that is conditioned by contact. [42]
“Therein, Upavāṇa, in the case of those ascetics and brahmins who maintain that suffering is created by oneself, and those who maintain that suffering is created by another, and those who maintain that suffering is created both by oneself and by another, and those who maintain that suffering has arisen fortuitously, being created neither by oneself nor by another—in each case it is impossible that they will experience [anything] without contact.”
27 (7) Conditions
At Sāvatthı̄. “Bhikkhus, with ignorance as condition, volitional formations [come to be]; with volitional formations as condition, consciousness … Such is the origin of this whole mass of suffering.
“And what, bhikkhus, is aging-and-death? The aging of the various beings ... (as in §2) … thus this aging and this death are togeth
er called aging-and-death. With the arising of birth there is the arising of aging-and-death; with the cessation of birth there is the cessation of aging-and-death. Just this Noble Eightfold Path is the way leading to the cessation of aging-and-death; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness, right concentration.
“And what, bhikkhus, is birth?… existence?… clinging?… [43] … craving?… feeling?… contact?… the six sense bases?… name-and-form? … consciousness?… volitional formations? There are these three kinds of volitional formations: the bodily volitional formation, the verbal volitional formation, the mental volitional formation. With the arising of ignorance there is the arising of volitional formations. With the cessation of ignorance there is the cessation of volitional formations. Just this Noble Eightfold Path is the way leading to the cessation of volitional formations; that is, right view ... right concentration.
“When, bhikkhus, a noble disciple thus understands the condition; thus understands the origin of the condition; thus understands the cessation of the condition; thus understands the way leading to the cessation of the condition,84 he is then called a noble disciple who is accomplished in view, accomplished in vision, who has arrived at this true Dhamma, who sees this true Dhamma, who possesses a trainee’s knowledge, a trainee’s true knowledge, who has entered the stream of the Dhamma, a noble one with penetrative wisdom, one who stands squarely before the door to the Deathless.”85
The Connected Discourses of the Buddha Page 59
