by Bob Woodward
More than a month later, August 5, Kim wrote Trump the longest letter exchanged between the two.
The tone was polite. But the message was that relations between Kim and Trump may have cooled off for good. It sounded like a disappointed friend or lover.
Kim thanked Trump for the pictures of their meeting at the border. “I’m delighted to receive each and every single picture you specifically chose from that day, which holds special meaning and will remain an eternal memory from that momentous and historic day,” he wrote. “Those photographs now hang in my office. I express my appreciation to you, and I will remember that moment forever.”
But Kim was upset, he said, because military exercises by the U.S.–South Korea alliance had not fully stopped.
“My belief was that the provocative combined military exercises would either be cancelled or postponed ahead of our two countries’ working-level negotiations where we would continue to discuss important matters,” Kim wrote. “Against whom is the combined military exercises taking place in the southern part of the Korean Peninsula, who are they trying to block, and who are they intended to defeat and attack?”
He continued: “Conceptually and hypothetically, the main target of the war preparatory exercises is our own military. This is not our misunderstanding…
“As if to support our view, a few days ago the person who they call the minister of national defense of South Korea said that the modernization of our conventional commercial weapons was deemed a ‘provocation’ and a ‘threat’ and that if we continue to ‘provoke’ and ‘threaten’ they will classify my administration and military as an ‘enemy.’ Now and in the future, South Korean military cannot be my enemy. As you mentioned at some point, we have a strong military without the need of special means, and the truth is that South Korean military is no match against my military.”
Kim said he did not like the U.S. military’s role. “The thing I like even less is that the US military is engaged in these paranoid and hypersensitive actions with the South Korean people.
“I am clearly offended and I do not want to hide this feeling from you. I am really, very offended,” the letter continued. “Your Excellency, I am immensely proud and honored that we have a relationship where I can send and receive such candid thoughts with you.”
In remarks on the South Lawn of the White House on August 9, Trump spontaneously brought up Kim’s latest letter when answering a reporter’s question on a different topic. While Kim’s letter warned Trump had offended him, the president turned it on its head.
“I got a very beautiful letter from Kim Jong Un yesterday,” Trump said. “It was a very positive letter.”
“What did it say?” a reporter asked.
“I’d love to give it to you,” Trump said. “I really would. Maybe—maybe sometime I will.”
The CIA never figured out conclusively who wrote and crafted Kim’s letters to Trump. They were masterpieces. The analysts marveled at the skill someone brought to finding the exact mixture of flattery while appealing to Trump’s sense of grandiosity and being center stage in history.
TWENTY-SIX
I brought something that I’ve never shown to anybody. I’m going to show it to you,” Trump told me on December 5, 2019. “I’ll get you something that’s sort of cool.” He picked up the phone on the Resolute Desk in the Oval Office. “Bring me some pictures with Kim Jong Un and myself, crossing the line. Those nice color ones that I just saw.”
The 74-minute interview that afternoon was three months before the coronavirus pandemic consumed the United States and the world. It would be my first of 17 interviews with him for this book.
“This is on the record for the book,” I said. “I really am here to listen to your case. And I want to do policy. Because having done nine presidents, the policy is what matters. It’s the spine and definition.”
“I agree,” Trump said. “I agree. Policy can change, also, though, you know? I like flexibility. Some people say I change. I do. I like flexibility, not somebody that has a policy and will go through a brick wall for that policy when you can change it very easily and not have to go through the wall.”
As we waited for his staff to bring the photos, I mentioned the CIA had concluded that Kim is “cunning, crafty, but ultimately stupid.”
“I hope you write that,” Trump said, “And I hope you write my answer. I disagree. He’s cunning. He’s crafty. And he’s very smart. And he’s very tough. You know—”
“Why does the CIA say that?”
“Because they don’t know,” Trump said. “Okay? Because they don’t know. They have no idea. I’m the only one that knows. I’m the only one he deals with. He won’t deal with anybody else.”
Trump had had three meetings with Kim at that point.
Later, based on more in-depth reporting, I learned that the top CIA expert on North Korea agreed with the president that Kim was clever, manipulative but also quite smart.
An aide brought in pictures that show Trump and Kim. All of these shots were photos that had already been released and widely circulated at the time of the event.
“This is me and him,” Trump said. “That’s the line, right? Then I walked over the line. Pretty cool. You know? Pretty cool. Right? That’s the line between North and South Korea. That’s the line. That’s North and South Korea. That’s the line. That line is a big deal. Nobody has ever stepped across that line. Ever.” Many others had crossed the border into North Korea, but Trump was the first sitting U.S. president to do so.
Trump continued, “I said, would you like me to come in? He said, yes, I would like you to come in. Nobody’s ever done that. I mean, they’re cool pictures when you—you know, when you talk about iconic pictures, how about that?”
“But it’s still a dangerous relationship,” I said. “Would you agree?”
“Yeah,” Trump said, “but it’s less dangerous than it was. Because he likes me. I like him. We get along. That doesn’t mean I’m naive. That doesn’t mean that I think, oh, it’s going to be wonderful. He’s a very tough cookie. And he is smart, very smart.”
“You’re convinced he’s smart?”
“Beyond smart. Look, he took over, when he was 27 years old, a volatile place where the people are very smart. Same as South Korea. They’re the same. Okay? Same people. Very smart.”
Trump did not dispute that Kim was also violent and vicious. He said that Kim “tells me everything. Told me everything. I know everything about him. He killed his uncle and he put the body right in the steps where the senators walked out. And the head was cut, sitting on the chest. Think that’s tough? You know, they think politics in this country’s tough.”
The president continued, “Nancy Pelosi said, oh, let’s impeach him. You think that’s tough? This is tough. These are great pictures.” He pointed at one of the pictures. “Look, did you ever see him smile? Did you ever see him smile before?”
North Korean state media regularly releases photos of Kim smiling at various events. The president said he could give me copies of some of the pictures.
“The NorthCom commander in Colorado Springs is presidentially designated to shoot down a missile that might hit the United States homeland from North Korea,” I said. This would only be the case if the secretary of defense was not available.
“That’s correct,” the president said. “Yeah, we’re all set. Because you have to be set.”
“So you’re comfortable with that delegation of authority to NorthCom?”
“Sure. Well, you have to be prepared. I don’t wait for anything. I don’t wait for anything. Nothing bothers me. I don’t wait for anything. If I did, I would’ve been not here a year ago. They’ve been trying to impeach me now for three years. No, more. They’ve been trying to impeach me from the day I came down the escalator, okay, you want to know the truth,” he said, referring to the launch of his campaign. “They’ve been trying to get me from that time.”
He showed me a photo. “Look, nice picture. But—
no, the relationship is good.”
“So, hard question, President Trump,” I said. “I understand we really came close to war with North Korea.”
“Right. Much closer than anyone would know. Much closer. You know. He knows it better than anybody,” he said, referring to Kim.
“Did you tell him?”
“I don’t want to tell you that. But he knows. I have a great relationship, let me just put it that way. But we’ll see what happens.” He noted that for two years North Korea had not conducted nuclear or intercontinental ballistic missile tests. The last ICBM test by North Korea had been in November 2017.
“I can’t tell you what the end is going to be yet, how it’s going to end,” Trump said. “He’s tested short-range missiles. Which, by the way, every country has short-range missiles. There’s no country that doesn’t have them. Okay? It’s not a big deal. That doesn’t mean after January he’s not going to be doing some things. We’ll see what it is. But I have a great relationship.”
Many foreign policy figures had said that Trump gave Kim too much by agreeing to meet without formal, written conditions. “So have you given Kim too much power?” I asked. Kim had said he wouldn’t shoot more ICBMs. “Because if he’s defiant, if he shoots one of those ICBMs, what are you going to do, sir?”
“If he shoots, he shoots,” Trump said. “And then he’s got big problems, let me put it that way. Big, big problems. Bigger than anybody’s ever had before.”
Then Trump digressed to reveal something extraordinary—a secret new weapons system. “I have built a nuclear—a weapons system that nobody’s ever had in this country before. We have stuff that you haven’t even seen or heard about. We have stuff that Putin and Xi have never heard about before. There’s nobody—what we have is incredible.”
Later I found sources who confirmed the U.S. military had a secret new weapons system but no one wanted to provide details and were surprised Trump had disclosed it. Trump had asked for and received massive funding increases for the National Nuclear Security Administration, which maintains the nuclear weapons stockpile, since taking office.
Trump told me all he gave Kim was a meeting. “You look, look at the good picture. He’s having a good time. You know? Nobody’s ever seen him smile. Look. Look at him smiling. He’s happy. He feels happy.”
“Did you think it’s kind of Nixon to China,” I asked, referring to President Nixon’s opening to China in 1972.
“No, I don’t want to even talk about Nixon to China. I think Nixon to China—I think China’s been a horrible thing for this country. Horrible because we’ve allowed them” to become an economic powerhouse.
The military always tells you the alliances with NATO and South Korea are the best bargain the United States makes, I noted, a great investment in joint defense.
“The military people are wrong,” Trump said. “I wouldn’t say they were stupid, because I would never say that about our military people. But if they said that, they—whoever said that was stupid. It’s a horrible bargain. We’re protecting South Korea from North Korea, and they’re making a fortune with televisions and ships and everything else. Right? They make so much money. Costs us $10 billion. We’re suckers.”
It costs the United States approximately $4.5 billion annually to station troops in South Korea, $920 million of which is paid by the South Korean government.
* * *
“There is anger out there” in the country, I said. “And the question is, you’re sitting here in the Oval Office. Why? Why all that anger?”
“Okay,” the president said, “I think it’s for a number of reasons. But before I agree to even answer that question, okay? I have to say this: There’s also many Democrats that silently will vote for me. And it happened last time. The Obama Democrats that came out—I was going to say Barack Hussein, but I figured I wouldn’t say that today, because I want to keep this very nice. The Obama Democrats who came out and they voted for me, and it was a tremendous percentage. And the Bernie Sanders Democrats, they voted for me.”
Exit polls showed about 9 percent of those who identified as Democrats voted for Trump in 2016, and about 7 percent of those who identified as Republicans voted for Clinton.
I raised former President Obama and said that many thought he was smart.
“I don’t know. I don’t think Obama’s smart,” Trump said. “See? I think he’s highly overrated. And I don’t think he’s a great speaker. Oh, he’s so—hey look. I went to the best schools. I did great. I had an uncle who was a professor at MIT for 40 years, one of the most respected in the history of the school. For 40 years. My father’s brother. And my father was smarter than he was. It’s good stock. You know they talk about the elite. Really, the elite. Ah, they have nice houses. No. I have much better than them. I have better everything than them, including education.”
“This is an important moment in history,” I said, “where they’re going to impeach you, the House is going to impeach you.”
“Yeah.”
“And we’re sitting in the Oval Office here. And you are content, happy, proud.”
“Yeah.”
“Any angst?”
“No.”
The deputy press secretary interrupted, saying, “We’ve got about five minutes, gentlemen.” The treasury secretary was waiting.
“Oh, that’s okay,” Trump said. “Go ahead. I find it interesting. I love this guy. Even though he writes shit about me. That’s okay.”
“What’s the Trump-Pence strategy to win over, in the next 11 months, the persuadable voter?” I asked.
“I don’t know,” Trump said. “You know what? I’ll tell you what the Trump-Pence strategy is: To do a good job. That’s all it is. It’s very simple. It’s not a—I don’t have a strategy. I do a good job.”
“Why don’t you give me your taxes?” I asked. “No, seriously.”
He cited his standard argument that his tax returns were being audited by the IRS, although I knew that would not stop him from releasing his taxes if he wanted.
“Do you know what I made last year?” Trump asked. “Four hundred and eighty-eight million or something like that. I made four hundred and eighty-eight—and that’s because I’m not there. Meaning I would have done much better. Four eighty-eight.”
Trump reported at least $434 million in income in 2018, according to his financial disclosure form filed with the Office of Government Ethics in May 2019.
I noted the split-screen effect of the impeachment debate in the House and this discussion in the Oval Office. I knew it was a big show. He had all his props on the Resolute Desk: the parchment appointment orders of the judges stacked in the middle of the desk, the large rolls of pictures of him and Kim, and a binder with letters from Kim. I had interviewed Presidents Carter, Clinton, George W. Bush and Obama in the Oval Office. All sat in the standard presidential seat by the fireplace and did not have props.
“It’s as if you had won the biggest lottery ever,” I said.
“I did. Every day I won it. Nancy Pelosi has driven my poll numbers through the roof. And she comes out with, I pray for our president. She never prayed for me in her life.”
“Okay. In a sentence, what’s the job of the president? What is your job as you see it?
“I have many jobs.”
I offered my standard definition. “I think it’s figuring out what the next stage of good is for a majority of people in the country—”
“That’s good,” Trump said.
“—and then saying,” I continued, “this is where we’re going, and this is the plan to get there.”
“Correct,” Trump said. “But sometimes that road changes. You know, a lot of people are inflexible. Sometimes a road has to change, you know? You have a wall in front and you have to go around it instead of trying to go through it—it’s much easier. But really the job of a president is to keep our country safe, to keep it prosperous. Okay? Prosperous is a big thing. But sometimes you have so much prosperity that people want
to use that in a bad way, and you have to be careful with it.”
As I listened, I was struck by the vague, directionless nature of Trump’s comments. He had been president for just under three years, but couldn’t seem to articulate a strategy or plan for the country. I was surprised he would go into 2020, the year he hoped to win reelection, without more clarity to his message.
“By the way, could I ask you a question?” Trump inquired. He wanted to know who I thought would get the Democratic nomination for president.
I had a terrible track record on such predictions and took a pass. “Who do you think is going to be your opponent?” I asked.
“I’ll be honest with you, I think it’s a terrible group of candidates,” Trump said. “It’s an embarrassment. I’m embarrassed by the Democrat candidates. I may have to run against one, and who knows? It’s an election. And I’m looking pretty good right now.”
TWENTY-SEVEN
Shortly before my second interview with President Trump on the afternoon of Friday, December 13, the House Judiciary Committee had voted to send two impeachment articles against the president to the full House of Representatives.
Trump was charged with pressuring Ukrainian president Volodymyr Zelensky in the phone call to investigate former Vice President Joseph R. Biden and Biden’s son while leveraging some $400 million in security assistance to Ukraine in its fight with Russia. The second article charged him with obstructing Congress’ investigation by ordering administration officials to ignore subpoenas. The vote to impeach was 23 to 17 along strictly partisan lines.
I wanted to see how Trump was handling impeachment.
The president seemed unbothered, even cheery, and had time for a one-and-a-half-hour interview in the Oval Office. He asked his photographer to take our picture. While we did, he explained he liked long neckties so the back could be tucked in the label. “Don’t you hate it when it flies?”
