Dogo: "I won't say."
"Dead or alive?" the disciple repeated angrily.
This is a big koan. How can it be resolved?
MONDO
Compassion, not love
QUESTION: In Buddhism we speak of compassion. What exactly is it?
Master: Universal love. Universal love and egoistic love are not the same. In the former you must have sympathy. If one becomes sad, you become sad. Same mind. It is not for one's self, not for egoistic reasons.
True Buddha's compassion is to go to the source. Love is important, but compassion is deeper. We must solve this deeply. To have compassion is to have the same mind as the other. Understand? (The questioner looks bewildered.)
QUESTION: I want to know if compassion is charity, pity.
Master: I said it is to become same mind. It is not dualism.
In love there is always duality. There is always opposition between the two partners. But in compassion the man becomes the woman's mind. Usually when there are two people there is opposition, and so love becomes relative.
Without wisdom love is blind, and blind love is not true love.
In modem times most parents love, love, love their children. Attachment. Egoistic love. So the children escape.... A mother whose daughter was always doing zazen came to me to complain. This mother was not at all happy. She wanted to keep her daughter to herself and to protect her. The daughter was twenty-four or twenty-five and she wanted to escape. So the mother gave her a beautiful house, but the daughter broke down the walls. There was too much attachment. This is not real education, not real compassion.
The Obaku sect: Noisy in the mind
QUESTION: How was the transmission of the Obaku sect?
Master: It still exists today. Obaku's disciples have continued the transmission. But the sect is finished now in China. In Japan it continues, at Uji, at Obakusan. There is an Obaku temple in almost all the prefectures in Japan. Not so many.
The Rinzai line also exists today; but it was the shusso of Obaku who was the one who actually created the Obaku line (and not Obaku's disciple Rinzai).
Ingen, a Chinese monk, brought the Obaku line to Japan. Around 1650.
The architecture of the Obaku temples is completely Chinese. Like the Obakusan temple in Uji near Kyoto. Many of my disciples have visited Obakusan. Very beautiful, and the food is good too. Murase Roshi is the chief educator of Obakusan. He is a big drinker of sake, and he is a good friend of mine. He has visited the Paris dojo, and whenever I return to Japan he always invites me to Obakusan. Last year I did a sesshin at Obakusan with one hundred of my disciples.
After the time of Obaku (d. 850) his sect began to mix Zen and Nembutsu. During zazen they recite the nembutsu. A bit noisy in the mind. In the Chinese temples on the mainland, which I visited before the Second World War, there too it is completely mixed. In China there was no Tendai, no Shingon, no Tibetan, but only Nembutsu and Zen. And the Obaku sect mixed the two.
In Japan the Rinzai, Soto and Obaku sects are very separate. In Japan the Rinzai temples are beautiful, like Dai Nan Myoshinji in Kyoto and Kenchoji Engakuji in Kamakura. But these temples are completely separate, one from the other. In the Rinzai sect there exists no general chief, for each temple has its own chief (and he is autonomous). While in Soto there is only one chief (Eiheiji); it has been so since the time of its founder, Dogen.
Bowl and kesa: Symbols
QUESTION: Concerning the bowl and kesa transmitted by Bodhidharma to Eka, are these the true bowl and kesa of Shakyamuni Buddha, or imitations?
Master: I don't know. No one knows. Had someone put the kesa in a vacuum fifteen hundred years ago, it might be possible to know.
Once I looked at the kesa of Fuyo Dokai (who taught around the year 1000). It was in the treasure room at Eiheiji. Master Nyojo had given it to Dogen, who brought it with him from China, about eight hundred years ago. I opened its box and looked inside. There was almost nothing, only dust, and bits of material. It did not have the form of a kesa.
But the Buddha's bowl was of iron, so it is possible that this has lasted. No it's not possible. The symbol is enough. Symbol. The kesa of Shakyamuni is the same as Bodhidharma's.
What is important is not the reality, but the symbol. Another question?
Without object, this is better
QUESTION: Yesterday you said that to help someone it is enough to do zazen. And today you say that you helped the girl in question (the crazy girl) by concentrating on her. So, is it possible to concentrate on someone without thinking?
Master: Both are best. You always want to make categories, so it is very difficult for you. There are many methods for helping her. There is not only the here and now.
What is to help? (No answer.)
Wisdom is necessary.
Answer: Yes, but how do you help her-concretely?
Master: If you do not forget her, you will forget another. If you concentrate on her, you cannot concentrate on another. So, without object is better. If you think I must do zazen now, so that I can help her, then this is not such a good zazen.
Mushotoku zazen is the most important. It is beyond object. This is the highest zazen.
"I must do zazen so that I can influence another," it is not necessary to think this way.
Shikantaza means without purpose. Do zazen unconsciously, automatically and naturally, and it will have an infinite influence. Then everything is possible. But if your object is limited, then this object is not so large, it is not infinite. Dogen wrote that if one person does zazen only for one hour, it will influence all people, all the world. This is true for everyone's zazen.
The important thing is to be beyond. If you want to make categories you become narrow, narrow. Hishiryo consciousness is infinite. It is difficult to solve this by using only one method.
Commentary on metaphysics
QUESTION: A Tibetan monk once said, "The world exists but the world is not real."
Master: Maybe this monk wished to explain the principle of ku. In Tibetan Buddhism, which is Mahayana, it is the same as in Zen. There is no noumenon. The world exists but noumenon does not exist. There is no substance.
I exist, but what does this mean? (The master holds his head.) Ah, but no, this is only my head. This is skin.... Today, tomorrow: the body changes. The cells change. In seven years all the cells will have renewed themselves. The skin, the intestines. In seven years it is no longer me. It is the same with the world.
QUESTION: Yes, but what is real?
Master: The world exists: this is a physical problem. The world does not exist: this is a metaphysical problem. Reality is a physical problem, it is physical. And to compare these two (i.e., the physical and the metaphysical) is difficult.
Religions sometimes make mistakes on this point and then confusion arises.
But in true Zen there is no comment on metaphysics. In Buddhism too. In Mahayana, in Nagarjuna's philosophy, in the Buddha's sutras, there are no commentaries on metaphysics.
It is impossible to decide on metaphysical problems, on death, on after-death, on before birth. Metaphysical problems cannot be resolved by conception, by science.
It is foolish to think about life-after-death. These are the preoccupations of egotistical people. It is only through the imagination that one can think about such matters. This is egoistic religion. "If I give a big fuse (gift), surely I will go to heaven." This is religious merchantilism. It cannot be solved through metaphysics, and only through the imagination can anything be done with it.
When one dies another world exists. Each person has his own cosmos, and when he dies his cosmos finishes; but this karma continues, continues. When we die our body returns to the elements of the earth, and so we never finish. Mind and body are unity.... But metaphysical problems cannot be certified. This is imagination. And not a religious problem. In a true religion they do not touch on this problem, and they do not make commentaries on it. Only egoistic people think of living for eternity.
The metaphysics of reincarnation
QUESTION: So you don't believe in reincarnation?
Master: Iwazu! Iwazu! I won't say.
Reincarnation is not at all important. That it exists, or doesn't exist, it is not at all necessary to believe in it. Reincarnation is a subjective problem. I'm not negative on the subject, but I don't say, "I must believe in reincarnation." I don't have any attachment to it.
Reincarnation is practical-for conferences. So sometimes I use it: reincarnation, transmigration. Here, last year, in Val d'Isere, I talked for forty days on this problem. I wrote a book about it. So buy my book, The Voice Of The Valley.'° I explain deeply on karma, and it is very interesting. I don't want to waste time repeating myself now.
Reincarnation? No one has ever come back, no one has ever seen it. This subject is very imaginative, and in primitive religions there were many ideas on this matter.
But one cannot completely decide, one way or the other. Sometimes believe, sometimes not. Dogen has written on metaphysical problems, and I, myself, have had many metaphysical experiences. I believe in the metaphysical world, but one must not make something small out of it: the cosmos is infinite. People write on metaphysical matters, but they write on only one small point; yet the metaphysical world is infinite. Categories make things small.
So please, do not have too much attachment for reincarnation.
Transmission of the highest posture
QUESTION: Why sit in the lotus posture? What is its advantage?
Master: Always why? Why? Why? For physical reasons? For health reasons? For mental reasons? Which do you mean?
Answer: For everything.
Master: From the medical point of view it is very effective. The pressure of the foot on the thigh: this is a meridianal line for acupuncture. Press on both sides here (the master points out where the heels press against the thighs) and it is an auto-massage.
In the lotus you can sit for a long time without fatigue. But sit on your knees, Japanese style, and you are not stable. You swing back and forth, you quickly get tired, and right away your knees begin to hurt.
The lotus posture is very exact. (The master takes up the full lotus.) See? Now the posture is fixed.
This is the highest posture. It is the posture transmitted by Buddha. And my master transmitted it on to me. Kodo Sawaki said that it was the best posture. It is a question of faith, not logic. I believe, I have faith in zazen. If science were to prove that zazen was very bad, I would still have faith in it. I've done it for too long now, for more than forty years, and I cannot stop.
Anyhow, modern science has proved that physiologically the zazen posture is excellent for the health. Please believe it.
JULY28/4 P.M.
BEYOND THINKING, BEYOND NON-THINKING
It is hot in here. Everyone is sweating. It is good to sweat. Shojin: one must make an effort. When your practice becomes difficult, and you make more of an effort, this is the best.
Zazen is not asceticism. It is the door to the Dharma. It is the teaching of peace and enjoyment.
If you want to obtain magic powers, then asceticism is necessary. In Hinduism, in Tibetan Buddhism, in traditional Yoga, the adepts of these religions seek for magic power. So they practice asceticism.
If you wish to deepen your metaphysical understanding, if you wish to enter the metaphysical world, then the practice of asceticism is necessary. Continue your practice for one, two, three weeks, without eating, and your brain will become more clear and your imagination will spread. Your brain will change and your metaphysical understanding will expand.
"In this coffin, master, is there life or death?"
"Iwazu, Iwazu. I won't say."
"Please, Master, teach me! Living or dead?"
But Dogo would not tell him. To tell him was impossible.
On their return to the temple, the disciple Zangen said again: "Please, tell me!"
"Iwazu."
The disciple hit the master, and it was a hard blow. In the past the disciples were very strong. But so was Dogo. (Dogo was in the line of Seigen and Yakusan.)
Had Rinzai been Rinzai in Dogo's place, certainly he would have answered Zangen with a kwat!
Anyway, even after being hit by his disciple, Dogo still would not say anything more.
After Dogo died, Zangen went to visit master Sekiso, and he asked the same question.
"Alive I won't say," replied Sekiso, "and dead I won't say."
"Why do you not give me an answer?"
"I won't say," replied Sekiso.
Then one day Sekiso came across Zangen while he was digging the ground with a hoe, and he asked him: "Why do you dig the ground?"
"I am searching for the spiritual bones of the master," said Zangen. "And even if I can't find them, my power will become strong."
Zangen now has respect for the master, though dead. Before he doubted and he hit his master. Now he digs, without doubt.
What is Iwazu?... A Tibetan monk once said that the world exists, but that it is not real. This problem is both physical and metaphysical. Put these two factors together and four possible answers appear. These answers are explained through a method found in ancient Indian logic, and later in Rinzai's Four Principles.
One: life, non-death. Two: death, non-life. Three: non-death, non-life. And four: life, death.20
By establishing such categories as one, two, three, four, it becomes complicated.
Iwazu, iwazu: this answer is beyond categories and it is much deeper.
Does the earth exist, or not? The Tibetan monk gave only one answer: it exists but it does not exist. It exists therefore it is nonexistent.
Masters Dogen and Dogo do not answer. Why? It is beyond logic. Dogen expresses this in his Genjo Koan-by not answering. This is deeper.
Yet today during the mondo I answered the woman's question (about the world existing or not existing). A good mondo. Better than most.
In these mondos, there are too many questions. So I too would like to go kwat! like Rinzai. But I am a Soto monk and I don't kwat.... Some questions are so stupid.
The world exists but does not exist, this is an answer. And Dogo's "Iwazu, Iwazu!" is also an answer. But hishiryo is beyond all this. No answer. Silence is sometimes the best answer.
While master Rinzai used the method of the Four Principles, Dogen used infinite thinking.
Dogen always repeated that the method of zazen, that shikantaza, is the deepest. Still, he thought very profoundly on the subject (at hand). He thought hishiryo. Absolute thinking. He did not create conceptions or categories. His thinking was beyond. It goes into infinity.
In Rinzai's text I do not find even once the mention of zazen. In Shobogenzo it is mentioned time and again.
The solutions to these koans are found in Dogen's work, but they are found in a form beyond that of Soto master Sozan's Five Degrees, beyond master Rinzai's Four Principles, beyond professor Einstein's theory of relativity.
My disciples have told me that we should go out into the mountains for the next mondo. So we will go outside. I am not a strong master. Sometimes I follow my disciples....
MONDO
(Two hundred people, most of them dressed in black robes and kesas, walk with the master into the valley. They cross the bridge which spans the river Isere, and settle down on the grass not far from the dojo. They are surrounded by mountains on all sides. These are the French Alps. Their peaks, covered in snow, rise into a cloudless blue sky.)
QUESTION (Stephane): Sometimes, when I have a big problem I sit in zazen, and it passes. Like when I have a headacheit passes when I sit in zazen....
Master: Is your problem solved?
Stephane: Yes.
Master: Good. But zazen is not a method for curing headaches. If you do zazen for this reason, then I cannot give you the shiho (transmission).
Stephane: Is the shiho good for headaches?
Master (laughing): You are crazy like your mother. You are just one step ahead of the crazy girl.... St
ephane is very honest and pure, and he has lots of humor-but not much wisdom. Another question?
The merits of zazen: None
QUESTION: I am from the Strasbourg dojo, and sometimes when people come to the dojo they ask me why should one do zazen. What must I answer new people?
Master: No object. I only do zazen. Because I have faith in it. Zazen is good but I cannot explain its merits. It is infinite and I cannot explain this!
For each one of us it is different. The first time I asked my master what was the merit of zazen, he replied: "Nothing....". This impressed me very much, I became very interested. But my friend who was with me left when he heard this answer....
If you do zazen I will give you a piece of chocolate-this is food for children.
The object of zazen is mushotoku (no object). If you want to receive the shiho you must understand mushotoku-zazen.
But as each person is different, you must look at his face before you answer. Even though the merits of zazen are infinite, you must still use a means. Another question?
Giving the transmission
QUESTION: What is the shiho?
Master: Shiho is the authentic certificate given to the disciple by which he can become a master. Not only a master, but a true master, a successor.
My successor, completely. If I die, then you represent me.... It is not necessary to give the shiho only to one disciple. I want to give it to one hundred of my disciples. But until today-and during these ten years-I have given it to no one. No one has received it. I am very sorry. I want to give it, but there is no one to give it to. Stephane: good. He has continued with me for a long time. He lives in the dojo in Paris and he does zazen from morning till night. He is number one. Still he does not understand the essence.
If I want I can give the shiho to everyone. To receive the shiho means that you understand my Zen. Dogen wrote very extensively on the giving of the shiho. Three papers are necessary. The shiho is given, alone with the master, at midnight. Two candles. The document. The master and the disciple cut their fingers and mix the blood. Then there are the signatures and the stamp. After this follows the secret teaching.
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