10.30 A.M.
MONDO
God and Buddha
QUESTION: What relation do you see between Buddha and Christ?
Master: The same and not the same. Time is not the same, place is not the same. Buddha came before Christ. He was born in India and Christ in Israel. Their karma is different. But their holy and essential mind was very near.
I cannot compare them now; it would require a long conference. What do you want to ask?
QUESTION: During your kusen you said that Buddha is God and is not God. So can we say that Christ is God and not God?
Master: Christ is everything, so he is God. In Christianity, in the Christ-God relationship, God is always important. But in Buddhism God can become another thing. We respect Buddha, but we must not be attached to the form of Buddha. We must be beyond Buddha. But in Christianity it is impossible to be beyond God 40
When I first arrived in Paris, Monsieur Joly believed completely in Hinayana Buddhism. One day, Madame Lambert said to him that God and Buddha were the same. Monsieur Joly became very very angry. (Sensei speaking like Joly:) "Not at all the same! Not at all the same!" Monsieur Joly was not at all Joli (French for "pretty"). He had too much attachment to the Buddha form. Madame Lambert's thoughts were larger, more international, universal. Joly's were more narrow. So I did not discuss it with them. Both are correct.
As with the Madame in the mondo yesterday-the one who spoke of communion, communication. It is the same. Had I said that God and Buddha were the same, she would have said, "No, no, no."
So it is a very big problem, this exchange between Buddhism and Christianity.
The late Pope (Paul VI) wanted to make this exchange, to become friends. But he wanted to use Buddhism, he wanted to use Zen.41 In the past Christianity was completely exclusive. There was only Christianity, and all other religions were a complete heresy, they were not true.
God and Buddha are the same in (the sense of) the fundamental cosmic power. I think so.
In Buddhism, Buddha is sometimes Shakyamuni (like with Christ) and sometimes Buddha is the Buddha before Buddha. In India, Buddha means all the masters, all the patriarchs.
Buddha's Buddha was the absolute Buddha. Like God. The absolute does not exist, but Shakyamuni Buddha does.
There are many kinds of buddhas. The succession since Bodhidharma, Eka, Eno, everybody, all the patriarchs: buddha. Dogen: Buddha. When I die: buddha.... Buddha, in Japan, sometimes refers to dead people. It means you are dead, you are buddha.
But in Christianity God is very simple; the category is very exact. What is God? Christian theology is very explicit.
Anyway, the category of ku in Buddhism is the same as God. The fundamental power of the cosmos. This is God, this is ku, the essence.
QUESTION: After Christ died someone opened the coffin and there was nothing. Yesterday you said the same about Fuke. What happened?
Master: Mystery! People like the mysterious. After Bodhidharma died they opened the coffin, and there was nothing. So they said that Bodhidharma walked back to India after his death. This is literature, poetry, the infinite. It is a metaphysical question. Mix metaphysical with physical problems and you become a little crazy. In Zen Buddhism these problems are not mixed.... To continue zazen is better. It isn't necessary to make categories. From non-thinking, intuition arrrives. Wisdom arrives. This is better.
The American supermarket
Philippe: Last year, in talking about the American Zen master [...], you said that his teaching was true Soto Zen....
Master: No, not now.42
Philippe: Last year you said yes. Anyway, what is interesting here is that this master, I've heard said, has recently come into serious trouble with the Soto Shu (the official Soto hierarchy and headquarters) in Japan. He is the only Soto master who is non-Japanese, and I am wondering if this had anything to do with his problems with the Soto Shu?
Master: This is not the cause, not the problem. He escaped from Soto Zen, so he is not a true Soto Zen master. Yes, Master [...] practiced Soto Zen and I believed him to be pure, before; he was a true Soto missionary in America.
Sometimes he welcomes the Tibetan master into his dojo, so when the Tibetan master comes, they practice Tibetan meditation. Another time a famous Yoga master comes, so then they have Yoga meditation. There are many many kinds of meditations in America, and he welcomes them all. Sometimes zazen, sometimes yoga.
The method he uses is very free, but it is not Soto Zen, not Dogen Zen. For people who like zazen, they give a conference on Dogen Zen. For those who like Yoga, they have conferences on Yoga. It is very clever, but it is not true. He has not one true thing. This is not shikantaza. It is a supermarket. It sells many things. But shikantaza means only zazen.
Yasutani was also like this. He was born in a Soto temple, he became a Soto Zen monk, and he practiced Soto Zen. He also practiced Rinzai Zen-he liked satori. So a great Rinzai master told him once: "You've got satori." Therefore he wanted to use both Rinzai and Soto, and this is why Rinzai monks did not like him. And Soto too excluded him. So Yasutani escaped to America.43
Sit on two chairs and you will fall down. Run after two rabbits and both will escape you. You must concentrate on only one. Then one becomes all.
My Zen is exactly Dogen's. Shikantaza, only one. This is true Buddhism. And not sectarian. And Master [...], even if he is beyond Soto Zen, beyond the Soto sect, his Zen is not true.
American Zen is mistaken. There is Alan Watts' Zen, Rinzai Zen. There are many kinds, many flowers. They are beautiful; but American people do not understand true Zen.
So, Philippe, your book is very important.... My book! You did the writing. It is very important. This book will influence the Americans. American people are very clever so they will quickly understand. It is interesting this book The Voice of the Valley.44
Dokusan
QUESTION: Some years ago I had the occasion to participate in a retreat in a Christian monastery in Belgium. Each day and whenever we so wished, we had at our disposition a Spiritual Father with whom we could speak of our problems, of what we were living and experiencing, and I found this to be very beneficial. Do such meetings exist in Zen?
Master: In Zen: dokusan. Who was the master?
Answer: A different one every day. They were called Spiritual Fathers.
Master: And what did you ask?
Ans: We could ask anything we wished. But in particular we told him what we were experiencing, what we were feeling.
Master: They do this in Rinzai. But not so much in Soto. People in Soto ask their questions like this, in a public mondo. It is better.
But if you want to ask me a question in private, it is possible to visit my room. This is dokusan. I use it 45
But now in Soto as well as in Rinzai, dokusan has become formalism. In Rinzai, after the morning zazen, you go and visit the master with your koan: "What is mu?" asks the master.
"Kwaaat!"
In Soto dokusan is the same. The disciple enters the master's room, does sampai, asks something of the master, and the master gives him the kyosaku. Only this. Pure formalism.
I created this (form of mondo). It is very effective. They never have mondos like this in Japan. Because the master himself cannot answer the questions. So they answer with a kwat or with the kyosaku. But I am very kind, exactly I answer you.
Language is very difficult, so if you want to ask me a secret question, madame, by letter would be better. Write a note and give it to my secretary and I will answer it. This way I will keep your secret a secret.
The death of Buddha, the death of Christ
QUESTION: Christ died young and with much spectacle and violence, and his death had a deep signifiance for humanity. Does the death of Buddha also have a deep significance?
Master: No. His death was natural. Buddha had just eaten some pork, and his intestines were sick and he died very naturally. He was about eighty-five years old and there was nothing spectacular or special about it.
&
nbsp; It is not good to eat pork in India, and for the Hindus it is even forbidden. But Buddha ate pork-I read this in a true
It happened while he was at a believer's house in Kusinagara. The believer (Cunda, a blacksmith) had invited Buddha, and the dinner was very delicious and everyone ate a lot; and Buddha, whose intestines were unhealthy, died. He died in a forest, a beautiful forest, between two lovely trees, Sala trees.
Many disciples, all his believers, all the animals (one thousand of them, the forest was full) came around him.... Buddha had a completely good posture, and in the end he gave them the Testament Sutra, Butsu Yuikyo Gyo. After giving this kusen (oral teaching), he fell into a deep sleep. This is a very famous scene; you can see it in the Nirvana picture (which depicts Buddha lying on his right side).
This death has no significance. His testament though, is very famous. Master Dogen has written on this testament in the ninety-fifth chapter of Shobogenzo.
Buddha died naturally, he was smiling and peaceful. This is nirvana. Nirvana, completely quiet, only this.
It wasn't the same with Christ. Christ's death was very dramatic. And so the religion too.
Buddha experienced life until he was more than eighty years old, and so his teaching changed. Buddha lived fifty years more than did Christ; and he changed. Kodo Sawaki too-when he was young, and later at fifty, sixty, seventy, and then just before his death when he was in his eighties-he changed, changed. My teaching also has changed. My old disciples know. From the time I arrived here to now, it has changed. It has become deep.
So Christianity and Buddhism are different. A person who lives until eighty becomes deep. His experience becomes very deep.
But for younger people Christianity is very effective. I, myself, in my younger days experienced Christianity. I was very impressed by it. But Buddhism is deeper. So after practicing Christianity, to practice Buddhism is very effective: one's personality becomes deep.... Another question?
Mind is always the same
QUESTION: This morning you said that true mind does not choose; but in everyday life we are always confronted with decisions to make. We have always to choose. How can we harmonize these two necessities?
Master: Good question! It is a physical-metaphysical question. To seek the true way: don't select
In daily life it is necessary to select. Macrobiotic people always select. (Sensei imitates someone examining the food before him.) "This is no good, I don't eat this! Oh, this is very good, I eat this!"
Mind is important. I don't select my disciples. If one escapes, d'accord! If one comes: welcome!.... Mind is always peaceful.
Most peoples' minds are always selecting. But these minds are not practicing. This is a contradiction; and so life becomes difficult.
Mind which does not select is in its normal condition, and for this mind everything is d'accord. I have no money, never mind. Mind does not select. It is decision. Decision is very important.
Consciousness always makes karma. "You must do it like this!" or "You must do it like that!" But the cosmic order is not so exact (i.e., the cosmic order is not like this).
So it is not necessary to select. Bad things in the end become good, and good things bad. If we get something, we lose something. It is always this way; mind is always the same. Do you understand?
This is satori. Inside mind. Everything.
Wisdom is necessary. Want too much and it escapes. The cat, the madame. But when mind becomes quiet, everything comes. Even money.
Business without profit is foolish. In business it is necessary to get money. In business, in life, wisdom is necessary.
8.30 P.M.
NOTHING IS SO IMPORTANT
The true way is not difficult, but people want to select and so it becomes complicated. Satori is not at all difficult. It is simple. It is to return to the normal original condition of the brain.
Nirvana means total death. Enter the coffin and this is com plete satori. Zazen is to enter into the coffin. It is very simple. There is no decoration. The family furnishes the decoration. After our death we don't need decoration, nor food nor sex. It is very simple, very pure.
Christ said in the Bible that all existences return to death. But then God makes them all relive again.
Think while you are in the coffin, then you will understand that nothing is important. During zazen-if you have done it for a long time-things are not so important. The source of anxieties decrease. Desires
Sometimes they arise again: "What's become of my family?"
Even if you are in pain, if you are suffering in zazen, even if you die now, never mind. It is not so important. Just continue zazen, and at this moment everything will finish. The philosophies, the sutras, fears, anxieties: they are not so important. Do zazen like this for a week and everything in the end will finish. There will be no more questions in the mondos. The brain will have become simple.
But were I to say: "If there are no questions we will continue zazen," then surely someone will say to himself: "I must think up a question." So thoughts arise and the brain becomes complicated, and more and more thoughts arise.
A little difference in the beginning becomes a big difference in the end. As big as between the earth and the sky.
Zazen is nothing, it is simple. But even that can become complicated. Some continue zazen for five or seven years and their zazens have become complicated. Karma is different, and thinking and seeking are not the same.
When I was a child my mother wanted to make me into a little monk. She was very religious, like Kannon (Avalokitesvara), and she respected monks. So once she even shaved my head. Very good; I had a nicely shaped head. But my mother was also very economical and this way she could save up on barber fees.... Then in my twenties I became neurotic: I read philosophy books, literature, books on Buddhism and on Christianity and I became complicated.
Then I went to study Rinzai at Engakuji. Next I went to visit (the Soto master) Kodo Sawaki at Sojiji temple, and I told him that I wanted to become a monk. Foolish, he said. He knew my character. If he were to give me the monk ordination too soon, then surely I would escape. Better to give me the ordination just before his death. This way I would not escape.
I give the monk's ordination to everyone. All they must do is ask for it and I say, "d'accord, d'accord." The body gets it. Not the mind. But later the mind gets it too. Body and mind, surely....
Satori means that there is no world to escape from, no world to run after. This is true zazen, shikantaza.
AUG. 20 / 7 A.M.
GENSHI AND THE LIGHT OF THE MOON
If you do not know the principle of the deep way your brain will tire in vain.
Genshi. Gen means deep or bottom; shi means principle. Genshi has a deep meaning, a deep originality. It means the true way. If we look only at the finger which points to the moon, we cannot see the moon of genshi.
Each person is different. Each have different dimensions. Between that of the little girl and the man: I love you. The little girl does not know this.... If dimensions are different then it is very complicated. But if the dimensions are the same, then one can quickly understand. Man with man, woman with woman, horse with horse, homosexual with homosexual.48
The shadow of the moon arises anywhere, and the light reflects in any place. But its shadow lives in the minds of those who look at it. The shadow of the moon is only one, the same. But in the mind of each beholder it is different.
Genshi, the deep principle, the fundamental source, fills the whole cosmos. And yet like the moonlight, it is in every town, every village. The fundamental cosmic power is everywhere, here and now. So too in zazen right now. But we cannot look at it; we cannot seize it, touch it. Because each has his own karma. The dimensions are not the same. This is satori, this is enlightenment, communion. Each person has his conception, his category, his own norm. Each chooses for himself.
Listen to the voice of the valley. When you return to your homes try and remember this sound.
The voice of t
he valley, the current in the valley, the color of the mountain: this is from Sotoba, a great poet of ancient China. Well, one night while he was doing zazen in his hermitage he heard the voice of the valley, and he woke up completely. Unconsciously, automatically and naturally genshi penetrated to the deep bottom of his ki kai tanden. Genshi, the deep principle. Genshi, the root, the source.
All phenomena are but a dream, a bubble, a shadow, a thunderclap, a dew drop-it is the same.
The flowing stream: it is impermanent, always changing. But it is permanent, it is the stream, always flowing, never stopping, and the water is always fresh. Bubbles on the surface of a stagnant pond: sometimes they disappear, then they reappear. Our life is like this. There is no need to run after or to escape.
Kaijo!
Don't move! Whenever I say kaijo, you move. You run after the drum, after the sound of the drum.
(The drum is struck nine times-to indicate the hour.)
The sound of the drum is very deep and at the end of zazen it is very effective. It touches your ki kai tanden under the navel. So it becomes strong.
(The wooden block suspended at the entrance to the dojo and the metal plaque suspended in front of the kitchen, a good two hundred meters off, are struck with steadily increasing speed, causing the sounds to interplay and to blend together.)"'
The traditional sounds you hear in and after zazen have a deep meaning.
10.30 A.M.
THE LAST ZAZEN:
The flower has fallen and the mountain is tranquil Push the sky with the head, the ground with the knees.
If our mind becomes normal, becomes tranquil, it vanishes naturally and automatically. This is satori, this is hishiryo.
Here is master Keizan's commentary:
The white clouds disappear, the blue mountain stands alone.
The souring power of the many mountains vanish, Only one-the highest, the one which reaches to the sky-is standing.
Nobody arrives at its summit, nobody knows its name.
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