Complete Works of Edmund Spenser

by Edmund Spenser

  IRENIUS Trulie I must confesse I doe soe, but yet not so absolutelie as yee suppose. But I doe herein relye upon those bardes or Irishe Cronicles, though the Irishe themselves, through their ignorance in matters of learninge and deepe judgement, doe most constantly beleve and avouch them. But unto them besides I adde my owne readinge; and out of them both togeather, with comparison of tymes, likenes of manners and customes, affinitie of words and names, properties of natures and uses, resemblances of rights and ceremonies, monuments of Churches and Tombes, and many other like circumstances I doe gather a likelyhood of truth; not certenly affirminge any thinge, but by conferringe of tymes, language, monuments, and such like, I doe hunt out a probabilitie of thinges, which I leave unto your judgement to beleve or refuse. Nevertheles there bee some very auncyent authors which make mencyon of those thinges, and some moderne, which by comparinge of them with the present tymes, experience, and theire owne reason, doe open a wyndow of greate light unto the rest, that is yet unsene; as namely, of the oulder, Caesar, Strabo, Tacitus, Ptolemie, Plinie, Solinus, Pompeus Mela, and Berosus; of the latter, Vincentius, Æneas Silvius, Ludus, Buckhanan, [of all of which I do give most credit unto Buchanan] for that he himselfe, being an Irishe Scott or Picte by nacon, and beinge very excellently learned, and industrious to seeke out the truth of these thinges concerninge the originall of his owne people, hath both sett downe the testimonies of the auncyents truly, and his owne opinion withall very reasonablie, though in some thinges he doth somewhat flatter. Besides, the Bardes and Irish Croniclers themselves, though through desier of pleasinge perhappes to much, and ignorance of arte and pure learninge, they have [clouded] the truth of those tymes; yet there appeareth amongest them some Reliques of the true antiquitie, though disguised, which a well eyed man may happilie discover and finde out.

  EUDOXUS How cann there bee any truth in them at all, since the auncyent nations which first inhabited Ireland were altogether destitute of letters, much more of learninge, by which they might leave the veritie of things wrytten. And those bardes comminge alsoe soe many hundred yeres after, could not knowe what was done in former ages, nor delyver certenty of any thinge, but what they feyned out of theire unlearned heades.

  IRENIUS Those bardes indeede, Cesar writeth, delyver no certen truth of any thinge, nether is there any certen holde to be taken of any antiquitie which is receaved by tradiccon, since all men bee lyars, and [may] lye when they will; but yet for auncyentnes of the wrytten Cronicles of Ireland, geve me leave to say somethinge, not to justifie them, but to showe that some of them might say truth. For where yee say that the Irish have allwayes benn without letters, yee are therein much deceaved, for yt is certen, that Ireland hath had the use of letters very auncientlie, and longe before England.

  EUDOXUS Is yt possible? how comes yt then that they are so barbarous still, and soe unlearned, beinge soe olde scollers? For learninge as the Poett saith, emollit mores nec sinit esse feros: whence then I pray you coulde they have those letters?

  IRENIUS It is harde to saye: for whether they at theire first comminge into the land, or afterwardes by tradinge with other Nations which hade letters, learned them of them, or devised them amongest themselves, [it is very doubtful. But that they had letters anciently, it is nothing doubtful,] for the Saxons of Englande are saide to have theire letters, and Learninge, and learned men, from the Irishe; and that also appeareth by the likenes of the Carracter, for the Saxons carracter is the same with the Irishe. Now the Scythians never, I cann reade, of oulde had letters among them: therefore yt seemeth that they had them from the nacyon which came out of Spaine, for in Spaine there was (as Strabo wryteth) letters auncyently used, whether brought unto them by the Phenicians, or the Persians, which as yt appeareth by him) had some footinge there, or from Marseles, which is saide to have been inhabited by the Greekes, and from them to have had the Greeke carracter; of the which Marsilianns yt is said, that the Gaules learned them first, and used only for the furtherance of theire trades and private busines: for the Gaules (as is stronglie to be proved by many au ncyent and authenticall wryters) first inhabite all the sea coste of Spaine even unto Cales and the mouth of the Streights, and peopled also a greate parte of Italie, which appeareth by sundrie Citties and havens in Spaine called of them, as Portingalia, Gallecia, Galdunum; and also by sundrie nacons therein dwellinge, which yet have reseaved theire owne names of the Gaules, as the Rhegnie, Presamarie, Tamariti, Cineri, and divers others. All which Pompeius Mela, beinge himselfe a Spaniarde, yet saith to have descended from the Celtics of Fraunce, whereby yt is to be gathered, that that nacon which came out of Spain into Ireland were auncientlie Gaules, and that they brought with them those letters which they had learned in Spain, first into Ireland, the which some allso saye doe muche resemble the olde Phenicon carracter, beinge likewise distinguished with pricke and accent, as theires auncyentlie; but the further enquirie thereof needeth a place of longer discourse than this our shorte conference.

  EUDOXUS Surelie you have showed a greate probabilitie of that which I had thought impossible to have benn proved; but that which you nowe saye, that Ireland shoulde have benn peopled with the Gaules, seemeth much more strainge, for all theire Cronicles doe say that the west and south was possessed and inhabited of Spaniards: and CorneliusTacitus doth allso stronglie affirme the same, all which you must either overthrowe and falsifie or renounce your opinion.

  IRENIUS Neither so, nor soe, for the Irish Cronicles, as I said unto you, beinge made by unlearned men, and wrytinge thinges accordinge to the apparance of the truth which they conceyved, doe erre in the circumstances, not in the matter. For all that came out of Spain (they beinge no diligent searchers into the differences of the Nacyons) supposed to be Spaniards, and so called them, but the groundworke thereof is nevertheles (as I saide) true and certen, however, they through theire ignorance disguise the same, or through theire owne own vanitie whilst they would not seeme to bee ignorant, doe thereupon buylde and enlarge many forged histories of theire owne antiquitie, which they delyver to fooles and make them beleve them for true: as for example, that first of all one Gathelus the sonne of Cecropes, or Argos, who havinge married the Kinge of Egyps his daughter, thence sayled with her into Spain, and there inhabited: Then that of Nemedus and his fower sonnes, who coming out of Scythia peopled Ireland, and inhabited yt with his 2 sonnes twoe hundred and ffifty yeares, till he was overcome of the Gyants dwellinge then in Irelande, and at the last quite banished and rooted out. After whome two hundred yeres, the sonnes of one Dela, beinge Scythians, aryved there againe, and possessed the whole lande, of which the youngest, called Slaynius, in the ende made himselfe Monarch. Lastlie, of the iiij sonnes of Milesius Kinge of Spain, which conquered that land from the Scythians, and inhabitinge yt with Spaniards, called yt of the youngest Heberuus, Hibernia: all which are in truth mere fables, and very Milesian lyes, (as the lattine proverbe is;) for there was never such a Kinge of Spain called Milesius, nor any suche colony seated with his sonnes, as they fayne, that cann ever bee proued. But yet under these tales yee may in manner see the truth lurke. For Scythians, here inhabitinge, they name and doe speake of Spaniards whereby appeareth that both those nations here inhabited: but whether very Spaniards, (as the Irishe greatlie affecte), ys no way to be proved.

  EUDOXUS Whence commeth it that the Irishe do soe greatlie covett to to fetch themselves from the Spaniards, since the olde Gaules are a more auncyent and much more honorable nation?

  IRENIUS Even of a very desier of newfanglenes and vanitie, for beinge as they are nowe accompted, the most barbarous Nation in Christendome, they to avoide that reproache woulde deryue them selves from the Spaniards, whom they now see to bee a very honorable people, and next borderinge unto them: But all that is most vaine; for from the Spaniard, that now is, is come from as rude and salvage nations as they, there beinge, as yt may be gathered by corse of ages and veiwe of theire owne histories (though they therein labored much to enoble themselves) scarse any dropp of the oulde Spanishe bloode left
in them; for all Spain was first conquered by the Romaynes, and filled with Colonies from them, which were still encreased, and the native Spaniarde still cutt of. Afterwards the Carthaginians in all the longe Punicke Warres havinge spoiled all Spain, and in the ende subdued yt whollie tothem selves, did, (as yt is likelye) roote out all that were affected to the Romaynes. And lastly the Romaines, havinge againe recovered that countrye and beate out Hanniball, did doubtles cutt of all that had favored the Carthaginians, soe that betwixte them both, to and fro, there was scarse a native Spaniard left but all inhabited of Romaynes. All which tempests of troubles being overblowen, there longe after arose a newe storme more dreadfull then all the former, which over-ranne all Spain, and made an infinite confusion of all thinges; that was, the comming downe of the Gothes, the Hunnes, and the Vandalles, and lastly all the Nations of Scythia, which, like a mountaine flud, did overflowe all Spain, and quite drowned and washt away whatever relicts there were left of the land-bred people, yea and of all the Romaynes too. The which Northerne Nations findinge the complexion of that soile, and the vehement heate there farf different from theire natures, toke no felicitie in that country but from thence passed over, and did spread themselves into all Countries in Christendome, of all which there is none but hath some mixture or sprincklinge, yf not [thorough] peoplinge, of them. And yet after all those the Mores and Barbarians, breakinge over out of Africa, did finally possesse all Spain, or the moste parte therof, and treade downe under theire foule heathenishe feete what ever little they founde there yet standinge. The which, though afterwards they were beaten out by Ferdinando of Arragon, and [Isabell] his wife, yet they were not soe clensed, but that through the marriages which they had made, and mixture of the people of the land, during their long contynuance there, they had left no pure drop of Spanish bloode, nor of Romayne nor Scythian. Soe that all nacons under heaven, I suppose, the Spaniard is the most mingled, most uncerten, and most bastardlie; wherefore most foolishly doe the Irish thinke to enoble themselves by wrestinge theire auncestrie from the Spaniard, whoe is unable to deryve himselfe from any nacon certen.

  EUDOXUS You speake very sharplie, Irenius, in dishonor of the Spaniard, whome some other boast to be the onelie brave souldier under the skye.

  IRENIUS Soe surely he is a very brave man; nether is that which I speake any thinge to his derogacon, for, in that I saide he is a mingled people, it is no disprayse; for I thinke there is no nation now in Christendome, nor much further, but is mingled, and compounded with others: Yt was a singuler providance of God, and a most admirable purpose of his wisedome, to drawe those Northerne Heathen Nacons downe into those Christian partes, where they might receave Christianitie, and to mingle nations soe remote soe miraculouslie, to make, as it were, one kindred and bloode of all people, and each to have knowledge of him.

  EUDOXUS Nether have you sure any more dishonered the Irishe, for you have brought them from very greate and auncyent nations, as any were in the worlde, howe ever fondly they affecte the Spaniard. For both the Scythians and the Gaules were twoe as mightie nations as ever the worlde brought forth. But is there any token, denominacon or monument of the Gaules yet remayninge in Ireland as there is of Scythians?

  IRENIUS Yea surelie very many: for there is first in the Irish language many words of Gaules remayninge, and yet daylie used in common speach.

  EUDOXUS Wher, what was the Gallish speach? is there any parte of yt still used amongest any nacon?

  IRENIUS The Gallish speeche is the very Brytishe, the which was generally used heere in all Bryttaine before the cominge of the Saxons: and yet is retayned of the Welchmen, the Cornishe men, and the Bryttains of Fraunce, though tyme,woorking alteracon of all thinges, and the tradinge and enterdeale with other nacons rounde about, have chaunged and greatly altered the dialecte thereof, but yet the originall wordes appeare to be the same, as who [that] lyste to reede in Cambden or Buckanan, may see at large. Besides, there be many places, as havens, hilles, townes, and castles, which yet beare names from the Galles; of the which Buckanan rehearseth above 3 hundred in Scottland, and I can (I thinke) recount neare as many in Ireland: Moreover there be of the olde Galles certaine nacons yett remayninge in Irelande which retaine the olde denominacons of the Galles, as the Manapij, the Cauci, the Venti and others;by all which and many other very reasonable probabilities, which this shorte course, will not suffer to be laid forth, it appeareth that the cheef inhabitantes in the Iland were Galles cominge thither first from Spayne, and afterwards from besides Tannius, where the Gothes, Hunnes, and the Getes sat downe, they allso beinge (as it is said) of some ancient Galles, and lastly passinge out of Gallia it self, from all the sea Coaste of Belgia and Celtica, into all the sotherne coastes of Ireland, which they possessed and inhabited, whereupon it is at this daye, amongst all the Irishe a common use to call any strange inhabitante there amongst them, Gald, that is, descended of [or] from the Gaules.

  EUDOXUS This is very lykely, for even so did theis Gaules aunciently possesse and people all the Southerne coastes of our Brittaine, which yet retayne their old names, as the Belgeae in Somersetshier, Wiltshire and parte of Hampeshier. Atrebatij in Barkshier, Regni in Sussex and Surrey, with many others. Nowe thus far I understand your opinion, that the Scythians planted in the Northe parte of Ireland; the Spaniard (for so we call them) what euer they were that came from Spain, in the West; the Gaules in the Southe: so that there now remayneth onely the East partes towardes England, which I would be glad to understand from whom you thinke them to be peopled.

  IRENIUS Mary, from the Bryttons themselves, of which though their be lyttle footinge nowe remayning, by reason that the Saxons afterwardes and lastly the Englishe, drivinge out all the first inhabitantes thereof, did possesse and people the land themselves. Yet amongst the Tooles, the Brines, the Cavanaghes, and other nacons in Linster, there is some memorie of the Brytons remayninge: as the Tooles are called of the old Brytish woord Tol, that is, an hilly Country. the Brins of the Brytish word Brin, that is, Woody. And the Cavenaghes of Caune, that is, stronge. So that in thies three people, the very denominacon of the old Bryttons doth still remayne. Besides, when any flieth under the succor or protection of any against an enemy, he crieth unto him Commericke, that is Brytton Helpe, for the Brytton is called in his owne language, Commerouye. Furthermore to prove the same, Ireland is by Diodorus Siculus, and by Strabo, called Brytannia, and a parte of Greate Bryttaine. Finally, it appeareth by good Record yet extante that King Arthure, and before him Gurgunt, had all that Iland in his alleagiaunce and subjection: hereunto I could adde many probabilities of the names of places, persons, and speeches, as I did in the former, but they should be to longe for this place, and I reserve them for another. And thus you have hard my opinion, how all the Realme of Ireland was first peopled, and by what nacon. After all which the Saxons succeedinge, did wholley subdue it unto themselves. For first King Egfryde, longe kinge of Northumberland, did utterly waste and subdue, as appeareth by auncient Record, in which it is founde wrytten that he subdued all the islandes of the North, even unto Norwaye, and their kings did bringe into his subjection.

  EUDOXUS This rippinge up of Auncestries, is very pleasinge unto me, and indeed savoreth of good conceiptes, and some reading withall. I see hereby howe profitable travill and experience of forrainr nacons is to him that will apply them to good purpose. Neyther indeed would I have thought, that any such antiquities could have bene avouched for the Irishe, that maketh me the more to longe to see some other of your observacons, which you have gathered out of that Country and have earst half promised to put forthe: And sure in this minglinge of nacons appeareth (as you earst well noted) a wonderfull providence and purpose of Almightie God, that stirred up the people in the farthest partes of the world to seeke out theis regions so remote from them, and by that meanes bothe to restore the decayed habitacons, and to make himselfe knowen to the Heathen. But was their, I praye you, no more generall Impeoplinge of that Iland, then first by the Scythians, which you saye were the Scotts, and af
terwardes by the Affricans, besides the Gaules, Bryttons, and Saxons?

  IRENIUS Yes, there was an other, and that the last and the greatest, which was by the English, when the Earle Strangbowe, havinge conquered that Lande, delivered up the same into the handes of Henry the second, then Kinge, who sent over thither great store of gentlemen, and other warlyke people, amongst whom he distributed the Land, and setled such a stronge Colonie therein, as never since could, with all the subtile practices of the Irishe, be rooted out, but abyde still a mightie people, of so many as remayne Englishe of them.

  EUDOXUS What is that you say, of so many as remayne English of them? Why are, not they that were once English, abydinge Englishe still?

  IRENIUS No, for the most parte of them are degenerated and growen almost meare Irishe, yea, and more malicious to the Englishe then the very Irishe them selves.

  EUDOXUS What heare I? And is it possyble that an Englishman, brought up naturally in such sweet civilitie as England affordes, could fynd such lyking in that barberous rudenes, that he should forgett his owne nature, and foregoe his owne nacon? how may this be? or what I pray you may be the cause thereof?

  IRENIUS Surely, nothinge but that first evill ordinance and Institucon of that Common Wealthe. But thereof now is their no fitt place to speake, least, by the occation thereof offering matter of longe Discourse, we might be drawen from this that we have in hand, namely, the handleinge of abuses in the Customes of Ireland.

  EUDOXUS In truthe, Irenius, you doe well remember the plott of your first purpose; but yet from that me seemes, you have much swarved in all this longe discourse, of the first inhabiting of Ireland: for what is that to your purpose?