EUDOXUS Surely, Irenius, I have in theese fewe wordes heard that from you which I would have thought had bene impossible to have bene spoken of tymes soe remote, and customes so auncyent: with delight whereof I was as it were all that while entranced, and carryed far from myself, as that I am now right sorrye that yee ended soe soone. But I marvayle much howe it commeth to passe, that in so long continuance of time, and many ages come betwene, yett any jott of those ould rightes and superstitious customes should remayne amongest them.
IRENIUS It is noe cause of wounder at all, for it is the manner of all barbarous nacons to be very superstitious, and diligent observors of old customes and antiquities, which they receyve by contynuall tradicon from ther parentes, by recording of ther bardes and cronicle[s], in their songes, and by dayly use and ensample of ther elders.
EUDOXUS But have you I pray you observed any such customes among them, brought likewise from the Spanyardes or Gaules, as those from the Scythians? that may sure be very materiall unto your first purpose.
IRENIUS Some perhapps I have; and whoe that will by this occasion marke and compare ther customes shall finde many more. But ther are fewer I thinke, remayning of the Gaules or Spanyardes then of the Scythians, by reason that the partes, which they then possessed lying upon the Coast of the Westerne and Southerne Sea, were sithence contynually visited with strangers and forreyne people, repayring thither for trafficke, and for fishing, which is very plentifull upon the coastes: for the trade and enterdeale of seacoste nacons one with another worketh more civility and good fashions, all sea men being naturally desirous of new fashions, then the Inland dwellers which are seldome seene of forreyners; yet some of them as I have noted, I will recounte unto you. And first I will, for the better creditt of the rest, shewe you one out of ther Statutes, amongst which it is enacted that noe man shall weare his beard but only on the upper lyp, like mustachios, shaving all the rest of his chinne. And this was the auncient manner of the Spanyardes, as yett it is of all the Mahometans, to cut all ther beardes close, save onely muschachos, which they weare longe. And the cause of this use was for that they, being bred in an hot country, found much hayre on ther faces and other partes to be noyous unto them: for which cause they did cutt yt most away, like as contraryly all other ncaons, brought upp in could countryes doe use to nourish ther hare, to keep them the warmer, which was the cause that the Scythians and Scottes woare glibbes, as I shewed you, to keep ther heades warme, and long beardes to defend ther faces from could. From them also I thinke came saffron shirtes and smockes, which was devised by them in those hotte countryes, wher saffron is very common and rife, for avoyding that evill which commeth of much swetnes, and longe wearing of lynnen. Also the women amongst the ould Spanyardes had the charge of all hushould affayres, both at home and abroad, as Boemius wrighteth, though now theise Spanyardes use it quite otherwise. And soe have the Irish women the trust and care of all thinges, both at home, and in the feilde. Likewise rownd lether targettes, as the Spanyarde fashion, who used it, for the most part, paynted, which in Ireland they use alsoe, in many places, colored after ther rude fashion. Moreover ther manner of ther womens ryding on the wrong syde of the horse, I meane with ther faces toward their right syde, as the Irish use, is, as they say, ould Spanish, and as some say Africane, ffor amongst them the women (they say) use to ride acrosse: Also the deep smock sleve hanging to the grownd, which the Irish women use, (they say), was ould Spanish, and is used yet in Barbary: and yett that should seme rather to be an oulde Irish fashion; for in Armory the fashion of the Manche, which is geven in armes by many, being indeed nothing ells but a sleve, is fashioned much like to that sleve. And that Knightes in ould tymes used to weare ther mistres favor or loves sleve, upon ther armes, as appereth by that is wrighten of Sir Launcelott, that he wore the sleve of the fayre mayd of Asteroth in a tourney, whereat Quene Guenouer was much displeased.
EUDOXUS Your conceit is very good, well fitting for things soe farre from certayntye of knowledge and learning, only upon lykelyhoodes and conjectures. But have you any customes remayning from the Gaules or Bryttans?
IRENIUS I have observed a few of eyther; and whoe will better search into them may find more. And first the possession of their Bardes was, as Caesar writeth, usuall amongst the Gaules; and the same was also common amongst the Brittans, and is not yett altogether left of with the Walshe, which are ther posterity. ffor all the fashions of the Brittons, as he testifieth, were much like. The longe dearts came also from the Gaules, as ye may read in the same Caesar, and in John Boemius. Likewise the said Jo. Boemius wrighteth, that the Gaules used swordes, a hanfull broad, and soe doe the Irish nowe. Also that they used long wicker sheilds in battell that should cover their whole bodyes, and soe doe the Northerne Irish. But because I have not seen such fashioned targettes in the Southerne partes, but only amongst those Northerne people, and Irish Scottes, I doe thinke that they were brought in rather by the Scythians, then by the Gaules. Alsoe the Gaules used to drincke ther enymyes blood, and to paynte themselves therewith: soe alsoe they wright, that the ould Irish were wonte, and soe have I sene some of the Irish doe, but not theire enymyes but frendes bloode. As namely at the execution of a notable traytor at Lymbricke, called Murrogh Obrien, I saw an ould woman, which was his foster mother, tooke up his heade, whilst he was quartered, and sucked up all the blood running thereout, saying, that the earth was not worthy to drincke it, and therewith also steeped her face and brest, and tare her heare, crying and shriking out most terribly.
EUDOXUS Yee have very well runne thorough such customes as the Irish have deryved from the first ould nacons which inhabited that land, namely, the Scythians, the Spanyardes, the Gaules, the Brittanes. It nowe remayneth that you now take in hand the customes of the ould English which are amonst the Irish: of which I doe not thinke that yee shall have much to find fault with any, consideringe that by the Englishe most of the ould badd Irish Customes were abolished, and more cyvill fashions brought in their steade.
IRENIUS You thinke otherwise, Eudoxus then I doe; for the chiefest abuses which are nowe in that realme, are growne from the English, that are now much more lawlesse and lycencious then the very wild Irish: so that as much care as was then by them had to reforme the Irish, so much and more must nowe be used to reforme them; soe much tyme doth alter the manners of men.
EUDOXUS That semeth very strange which you say, that men should soe muche degenerate from their first natures as to grow wild.
IRENIUS Soe much can libertye and ill examples doe.
EUDOXUS What liberty had the English ther, more then they had here at home? Were not the lawes planted amonge them at the first, and had they not governors to curbe and keepe them still in awe and obedience?
IRENIUS They had, but it was such for the most part, as did more then good[,] for they had governors for the most part of them selves, and commonly out of the two familiyes of the Gerldines and the Butlers, both adversaryes and corivales one against the other. Who though, for the most part, they were but deputyes under some of the Kinges of Englands sonns, brethren, or other nere kinsmen, who were the Kinges leiutenantes yet they swayed soe much as they had all the rule, and the others but the tytle. Of which Butlers and Geraldines, albeit I must confesse they were very braue worthy men, as also of other the peres of that realme, made Lorde Deputyes, and lord Justices and signories at sundry times, yet thorough greatnes of their late conquests and seignories they grewe insolent, and evill bente both that regall authority, and also ther private powers, one against another, to the utter subversion of them selves and strenthining of the Irish againe. This you may reade playnly discovered by a letter written from the Citizens of Corke out of Ireland, to the earle of Shressburye then in England, and remayning yet upon recorde, both in the Tower of London, and alsoe amongst the Cronicles of Ireland. Wherein it is by them complained, that the English Lords and Gentlemen, who then had great possessions in Ireland, began thorough pride and insolencye, to make private warrs one against another, and, when the oth
er parte was weake, they would wage and drawe in the Irish to take ther part, by which meanes they both greatly encoraged and enabled the Irish, which till that tyme had bene shut upp within the mountaynes of Slewlougher, and weakened and disabled them selves, in soe much that there revenews were wonderfully impayred, and some of them, which are ther reckoned to have bene able to have spent xij or xiij hundred pounds per annum, of owld rent, that I may say noe more, besides ther comodetyes of Creekes and havens, were now scarce able to dispend the third part. From which disorder, and thorough ther huge calamityes which have come vpon them therby, they are now almost growne to be almost as lewde as the Irish: I meane of such English as were planted towardes the West; for the English pale hath preserved it selfe, thorough nearenes of the state, in reasonable civilitye, but rest which dwell aboue in Connaght and Munster, which is the sweetest soyle of Ireland, and some in Leinster and Ulster, ar degenerate and growen to be as very Patchcockes as the wild Irishe, yea, some of them haue quite shaken of ther English names, and put on Irishe that they might be altogether Irishe.
EUDOXUS Is it possible that any should soe farr growe out of frame that they should in soe short space, quite forgett ther Country and ther owne names? that is a most dangerous LETHARGIE, much worse then that of MESSILA CARVINUS, who, being a most learned man, thorough sicknes forgot his owne name. But can you counte us any of this kynde?
IRENIUS I cannot but by the reporte of the Irishe themselves, who report, that the Macmaghons, in the North, were auncyently English; to witt, descended from the Fitz Ursulas, which was a noble family in England, and that the same appered by the significacon of their Irish names. Lykewise that the Macswinies, now in Ulster, were aunciently of the Veres of England, but that they themselves, for hatred of the English, soe disguised ther names.
EUDOXUS Could they ever conceyve any such devilish dislike of ther owne naturall Country, as that they would be ashamed of ther name, and bite of the dugge from which they sucked lyfe?
IRENIUS I wote well ther should be none: but prowd heartes doe oftentymes, like wanton coultes, kicke at ther mothers, as we reade Alcibiades and Themistocles did, who, being banished out of Athens, fledd unto the Kinge of Asia, and ther stirred him upp to warr against ther Country, in which warrs they them selves wer cheiftaynes. Soe that, they sayd, did theise Macswynes and Macmahons, or rather Veres or Fitz Ursulaies, for private despite, turne themselves against England. For at suche tyme as Robert Vere, Earl of Oxford, was in the Barons warrs against King Richard the seconde, thorough the mallice of the Peeres, banished the realme and proscribed, he with his kynsman Fitz Ursula fledd into Ireland, wher being prosecuted, and afterwardes in England put to death, his kinsmen there remayning behinde in Ireland, rebelled, and conspiring with the Irishe, did quite cast of ther Englishe names and alleigaunce; since which tyme they have so remained, and have euer sithence bene counted meere Irish. The verye like is also euer soe reported of Macswynes, Mackmahons and Mackshehaies of Mounster, howe they lykewise were auncyently English, and ould followers to the Earle of Desmond, untill the raigne of King Edward the fourth: at which tyme the Earle of Desmonde that then was, called Thomas, being thorough false subbornacon, as they say, of the Queene for some offence, by her against him conceyved, brought to his death at Tredagh most unjustly, notwithstanding that he was a very good and sounde subjecte to the kinge. Therupon all his kinsemen of the Geraldines, which then was a mighty family in Mounster, in reveng of that huge wronge, rose into armes against the kinge, and utterly renownced and forsware all obedience to the Crowne of England; to whom the sayd Mackswynes, Mackshehayes, and Mackmahons, ther servantes and followers, did the like, and have euer sithence so contynued. And with them, they say, all the people of Mounster went, and many other of them, which were mere English, thenceforth ioyned with the Irish against the King, and termed themselves very Irish, taking on them Irishe habites and customes, which would never since be cleane wyped awaye, but the Contagion thereof hath remayned still amongst ther posterityes. Of which sorte, they say, be most of the surnames which end in an, as Shinian, Mangan, &c. the which nowe account them selves naturall Irishe. Other great howses ther bee of the ould Englishe in Ireland, which thorough lycentious conversinge with the Irish, or marrying, or fostering with them, or lacke of meete nurture, or other such unhappy occasions, have degendred from ther auncyent dignityes, and are nowe growen as Irish as Ohanlans breach, (as the proverbe ther is,) of which sorte ther are two most pittifull exsamples above the rest: to witt the Lord Breningham, who being the most auncyent Barron in England, is nowe waxen the most salvage Irish, naming himselfe Irish like Noccorish: and the other the great Mortimer, who forgetting howe great he was once in England, or English at all, is now become the most barbarous of them all, and is now called Macnemarra; and [not] much better then he is the ould Lord Courrie, who having lewdly wasted all the land and signoryes that he had and aliened them unto the Irishe, is himselfe also now growne quite Irishe.
EUDOXUS In truth this which you tell is a most shamfull hearing, and to be reformed with most sharpe sensures in soe greate personages, to the terrour of the meaner: for wher the lords and cheife men wax so barbarous and bastard like, what shalbe hoped of the pesantes, and baser people? And hereby sure you have made a fayre waye unto your selfe to lay open the abuses of ther vile customes, which yee have now next to declare, the which, noe doubte, but are very bad and barbarous, being borowed from the Irishe, as there apparell, ther language, their riding, and many other the lyke.
IRENIUS Yee cannot but thinke them sure to be very brute and uncyvill; for were they at the best that they weare of ould, when they were brought in, they should in soe long an alteracon of tyme seeme very strang and uncouth. For it is to be thought, that the use of all Englande, was in the raigne of Henry the seconde, when Ireland was first planted with Englishe, very rude and barberous, soe as yf the same should be nowe used in England by any, it would seme worthy of sharpe correction, and of newe lawes for reformacon; but it is but even the other day since England grewe cyvill: therfore in countyng the evill customes of the Englishe ther, I will [not] have regard whether the beginninge thereof were Englishe or Irish, but will have respect only to the inconvenyence thereof. And first I have to find faulte with the abuse of language, that is, for the speaking of Irishe amongst the English, which as it is unnaturall that any people should love another language more then ther owne, soe it is very inconvenient, and the cause of many other evills.
Complete Works of Edmund Spenser Page 168
