Gregory Charlop: I'm with you. I think things like Facebook Live are great, and I'm honestly surprised that it's not being used more by real estate agents.
Tom Ferry: It will be. The challenge, though, is that the vast majority of agents are hung up on: how do I make this look as good as my normal marketing that gets airbrushed and perfected? But then I remind them that at the end of the day, customers choose you because you're likable, you speak their language. They feel good about you. You've got smiling eyes.
Google shared with me a bunch of data about how agents are selected. A high number, around 49 percent, select the agent based on trust. How do you create trust? You let your hair down. You become vulnerable. And on top of that, your brand, your reviews and all the other things that would go along with that. So, most agents are just afraid. That's okay. I remind them all the time: your friends know what you look like, get over it.
Gregory Charlop: I heard international speaker and author Gary Vaynerchuk talking about this exact topic: that people aren't using Facebook Live because they want their hair to be perfect or their makeup to be perfect. They worry so much about making it professional quality, that they don't do it at all. And they're missing out on just what you described.
Tom Ferry: 100 percent. The best videos are always real, "Hey guys, I'm just walking to this open house. Oh my god, look at this bathroom! What do you think?" It’s you being you. They're all trying to impress someone rather than just realizing I'm just having a conversation with my friends. Just ask yourself, “How do I talk to my friends?” I don't go, "Hey there Gregory! How are you? I'm Tom Ferry, professional." I'm like, "Hey man, what's going on?" Right? You go live being yourself. You do that, and you're gonna win.
Gregory Charlop: I completely agree. One last question: If executives of a major traditional real estate company asked for your advice about how they could remain current and relevant in today's high-tech world with these newer technologically oriented firms, what advice would you give them?
Tom Ferry: First, I would say, "Congratulations, you have a massive advantage." Because they've got a huge brand, lots of identity. People know who they are.
I would create a culture first where executives and leaders are doing what they want their agents to do. So, I would look at every CEO and say, "You want agents to go, 'Hashtag Century 21' and do a video. So where is your three times a week video?" I would put it right on the executives. Sharing what's going on in your business as the CEO, the executive of the company. You do that, and it will trickle down throughout your entire organization.
That's my first advice: Do what you're asking them to do. Get out of the ivory tower or off the golf course and say, "How do we get 100,000 of our agents to use these hashtags to drive more traffic to our website?" Start doing the work would be my first thing.
Second, I would say, "You are never too old. I don't care if you're 30 or 80. Get on your phone. Hit Google, and type in, 'How do I do a Facebook Live?'"
Third, I would advise executives to start creating a company culture around the tools that they want the agents to use. So never do a conference call as long as Zoom, Twilio, or a Facebook Live private group is available. Just utilize all the tools, and let the agents see you doing it!
Bob Goldberg, the CEO of NAR, is doing an excellent job with a company called Relola. Relola is a geotargeting app that allows the executive members of NAR, as they're traveling around the country talking to their agents, to post their activities on the Relola map, making it transparent that my representatives today are in Kansas, tomorrow they're in Wyoming, and the next day they're in Michigan. So, using these tools from an executive level on down is better than, “Hey, let's hire a trainer to teach our agents how to do this stuff.”
Interview with Dave Phillips, VP of Industry Relations with Realtor.com
Gregory Charlop: Thank you Dave for joining us today. You have a very remarkable resume, including holding many important leadership and executive positions in the world of real estate. Can you tell us a bit about your background?
Dave Phillips: I actually got into the real estate business as a meeting planner, running the real estate conventions in Virginia. I just loved the industry, loved the people, loved real estate in general. I went on to be an association executive for a local association in Charlottesville, Virginia, for 12 years, and then, onto the Pennsylvania Association of Realtors to head up that entire state association for about six or seven years. So, I’ve been around a while, participated in a lot of NAR volunteer activities and different things along the way. It's been a great run for about 27 years and I feel like I’m just getting started.
Gregory Charlop: In addition to that, you do a lot of other activities, right? You give speeches and leadership courses—that type of thing.
Dave Phillips: I've always believed in giving back. I love to do training, particularly on leadership and strategic planning. I've done a lot of strategic planning for organizations both in and out of the real estate business. In my current job as vice president of industry relations at Realtor.com, I get to work with a lot of the largest MLSs in the country. All this helps me keep up with what's going on in the real estate world from the MLS and association viewpoint. I travel around to a lot of different meetings, conventions and give presentations on behalf of Realtor.comand explain all the great things we're doing.
I've been fortunate to be able to share my industry knowledge as well as my association management knowledge in lots of different platforms all over the country.
Gregory Charlop: Very impressive! A lot of our readers are interested in developing their own leadership skills. Can you share some advice about becoming a better leader?
Dave Phillips: Sure. My wife, Dr. Jan Phillips and I have just published a book called Time to Lead. She's a great leader, as well. So, we collaborated on this book because we believe that in today's society everyone is so busy and have many different things pulling for our attention and our priorities, that we lack time to lead.
The book focuses on three different gifts—as we call them—and if you take advantage of these gifts, you will actually find you have more time to lead. Focusing on the three gifts gives you the ability to focus on positive things rather than always putting out fires or dealing with the latest employee crisis. We need to know how to prioritize what we do as leaders, as well as real estate agents or individuals, to make sure we're getting done what’s truly important and build the foundation that allows you to be less stressed with time restraints and more focused on the results that you want.
Gregory Charlop: Can you share with us what the three gifts are for leadership?
Dave Phillips: The first one is the gift of learning. We believe strongly that if your leadership and the culture of your organization supports learning for your employees—such as taking training classes, attending conferences, or reading books—you will find new solutions to every challenge. If you constantly encourage your organization to learn more and to experience more, new doors will be opened that wouldn’t have been discovered without expanding your horizons. Even if it's not direct learning for that particular job, just the process of learning and the mentality and culture of learning is a gift to any organization. It allows you to expand your base and reach your successes in ways you would've never thought of without that learning.
The second gift is the gift of caring. We believe that both the leader and the organization need to care not only its employees, but for its customers, as well as the community they serve. If the organization cares about employees as humans and cares about providing them with some sort of a life-work balance, employees will care about the company. By caring, we mean: understand what's going on in their lives outside of work. Because in today's crazy busy world, we can't expect employees to go to work nine to five and not have to co-mingle work and life. This is especially true with millennials but is really true of all generations of workers.
Life is a complete merry-go-round of everything that is going on in
our lives, both work and personal stuff. So, whether it's having to take your parent/child to the doctor or attend a neighborhood meeting or whatever, it's pulling on our time. If we don't acknowledge that and embrace it as part of the work-life balance, we can’t really care about our employees. If we do not allow employees to be successful humans as well as productive employees, we will miss out on the loyalty and dedication that those employees could have to our organization.
The final gift is the gift of planning, which we too often ignore. We don't have time to plan for the future, but we've found that when you have a plan, it actually frees up time because you can focus on the plan rather than on wondering what you're supposed to be doing. If you don't have a written plan, then you just wander in many directions. That takes more time than it does to actually plan.
Gregory Charlop: You've been involved in leadership at many levels. What are some ways that real estate agents, brokers or executives could become more involved in leadership? And do you recommend it?
Dave Phillips: Absolutely, I recommend it. There are a multitude of ways to be involved in real estate leadership, both as a broker leading your firm as well as a volunteer at a Realtor® organization. This could be anything from serving on a committee or being president of your local association or chairman of your MLS or some sort of state director. There are many ways to give back to the real estate industry.
What we've always found is that the people who are engaged in that sort of leadership and participation—at whatever level of the realtor organization—are the ones who’ll still be in the industry years from now. Anybody who's involved in that sort of volunteerism gets more out of it than they put into it. They become more knowledgeable and have new doors open up that they wouldn't have known about without being involved.
It's actually related to the gift of learning. When you're out there operating in a leadership environment as a volunteer or even as an industry leader, you are learning about the industry. The knowledge that you gain from taking the time to invest in your industry is what really opens new doors for you that you never would've thought were there.
Gregory Charlop: Who would you recommend becoming involved with leadership? You mentioned volunteering in organizations or joining boards. Would it be someone who's been in real estate a long time? Is already established? Or someone who's just starting out? Or both?
Dave Phillips: I'd say both. I think we're way beyond the, "Hey, you have to pay your dues," type of situation where someone who's only been in the business a few years is not encouraged to serve. Whether you’re young or not young, you can lead. Even if they've only been in the business a few years or a few months, they can still have leadership skills and knowledge that is very valuable. One thing that the real estate industry always had is a lot of second career people. So, if you come from the mortgage banking industry and now you're in real estate, you might be a really good addition to a leadership role that involves dealing with financial issues.
We're seeing more and more millennials stepping up to the plate instead of feeling they have to pay their dues first. They're sharp, young, charismatic people who can be great leaders.
Gregory Charlop: It sounds like new people in the industry shouldn't be afraid to start getting involved with these organizations almost from day one.
Dave Phillips: I think, actually, they hold themselves back. I've seen plenty of really super talented millennials who come into the business thinking they're not worthy yet. I’ve heard many Realtors® who have been there for a while say, "We need to get this new person involved," and they push them forward. They help them go forward early in their career. But sometimes the new Realtors® are reluctant to take the step. They think, "I'm not quite ready," or "I need more experience," or whatever. I don't believe that's the case anymore. I think what you need is innovative thought, and when you get someone new to the business or, someone very young who hasn’t lived through the last eight real estate cycles, you get some fresh thought—some fresh juice in the organization. That can really be good.
It's still comes down to fundamental leadership. Whether you're charismatic and brilliant or whether you're young or old, it still comes down to understanding your role as the leader. That's why I like to help people learn how to lead, because I think anyone can be a leader if they understand how to lead.
Gregory Charlop: As you know, a lot of young people or people just starting out in real estate won't end up surviving in the real estate industry for very long. It's a tough business. Do you think that by getting engaged in these organizations early, they may improve their chances of success?
Dave Phillips: I definitely do. Certain people like to volunteer for everything, but you have to keep it in perspective. The ones that are successful typically find a balance of business and volunteering in their early career. Most find a mentor and attend as many training sessions as possible. They look for people who they can share their ideas with and learn from. It is critical to find someone to work with right out of the gate, a team or a broker that can help you understand the fundamentals of real estate.
Gregory Charlop: Switching gears a little bit, you've been involved with the real estate industry for a while now, and I imagine that you've observed some pretty dramatic changes. How has the industry changed over the years?
Dave Phillips: Two things. One, the business model of real estate has changed very little. There's been some peripheral stuff around the edges, but largely we're still a commission-based, independent contractor business. It's been like that my entire real estate career. That said, I think this industry has demonstrated that we're very adaptable to change—maybe slow to change, maybe reluctant to change, but we also actually change.
Here are a few examples of how we have adjusted to change. When the internet first appeared, nobody understood it. The internet started getting popular, and industries like travel agencies were put out of business because they did not adapt to the new environment. Disintermediation was the word that everybody used back then. We were worried about being disintermediated. The real estate industry actually rose up and embraced the internet, which is pretty shocking. So, in the mid-nineties we were putting listings on the internet, and Realtor.com came about. We were putting listings on the internet when a lot of people weren't even on email yet.
You could say we didn’t embrace the internet quickly enough, but we did embrace it before it was too late. I remember a headline in a national magazine that said, "Internet zero. Realtors one," meaning that the real estate industry had actually won the battle and avoided disintermediation.
It was a good example of us saying, "Okay, we have to adapt." And we have adapted in other ways too. We have continued to embrace technologies as they've come out, and we've continued to embrace new ways of doing business. Back in that same period -the nineties – is when buyer agency came out. There really weren’t a lot of people who understood buyer agency back in the nineties. And it wasn't until then that the entire industry had to change and become more transparent and more service-oriented toward the customer. Before that, it was just really doing deals and marketing properties. So, that was another fundamental change that the organization adopted instead of waiting for regulators or the legal system or an outside innovator to force change on the industry.
Gregory Charlop: The example you mentioned pertains to my next topic. I think that granting access to the MLS to the general public—say in their living room or on their phones—has had a profound effect on the real estate industry model. I think that that's been a major transformational change. How do you feel that giving public access to the MLS at home is altering the industry?
Dave Phillips: Well, I think it has altered it. When we first did it, we started seeing some really good statistics that flew in the face of the fears that were out there. The fear was, "When we do this, they won't need us as real estate agents. They won’t need us to help them buy or sell homes.” We really underestimated the value of a real estate agent and what we brin
g to the table, but that was the fear. And the reality was that the industry became more efficient; the process of looking for a home became more efficient for both the consumer and the real estate agent.
When you look at the statistics, they used to have to show a buyer dozens of houses before they found the one they liked. All they had was a crappy little picture in a black and white MLS book to look at before they went in and actually saw the house. So you often had to look at a bunch of houses before you could find the one that you actually liked.
Then, when the internet came along, you could see some color pictures, and that's only increased over time. We used to have just a few pictures with a listing. Now we have a hundred pictures on some listings. But even in the early days of the internet, you could see the house online and decide whether you liked it or not. You could search under certain parameters and rule out all the ones that you didn't want to see or that didn't meet your criteria. So, it saved both the consumer and the real estate agent a lot of time. And that's what, I guess, wasn't even thought of. It was more about losing control of the data. But I think that the statistics really show what happened there. It had a very positive effect on the productivity of real estate agents because they spent less time with clients.
I think the best example out there—I just used this when I sold my home in Pennsylvania—are the new 3D virtual tours. They are quite amazing. I asked my real estate agent to do a 3D tour of my home. A company called Matterport is leading the way, and there are others as well. This was great to experience because my house sold in 12 days. It only had four people look at it. Two of them made an offer, and two expressed continued interest but just weren't ready to make an offer.
What that told me was that these people had already been in my house. They'd already seen everything they needed to know, and the people who didn't come see my house had already seen everything they needed to know and decided it was not for them. Only four people came in, which isn't a huge amount of traffic in 12 days, but they were all extremely qualified or interested buyers. To get two offers out of four people seeing it says to me that I used that 3D tour as a pre-qualifier. No one wasted my time as the seller by wanting to come look at my house to decide whether they liked it. By the time they came to see it, they already knew they liked it and the chance of them making an offer was much greater.
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