Complete Works of Xenophon (Illustrated) (Delphi Ancient Classics)

by Xenophon

  “Yes, and the care and birth of Erectheus, and the war waged in his day with all the adjacent country, and the war between the sons of Heracles and the Peloponnesians, and all the wars waged in the days of Theseus, in all of which it is manifest that they were champions among the men of their time. [11] You may add the victories of their descendants, who lived not long before our own day: some they gained unaided in their struggle with the lords of all Asia and of Europe as far as Macedonia, the owners of more power and wealth than the world had ever seen, who had wrought deeds that none had equalled; in others they were fellow-champions with the Peloponnesians both on land and sea. These men, like their fathers, are reported to have been far superior to all other men of their time.”

  “Yes, that is the report of them.” [12]

  “Therefore, though there have been many migrations in Greece, these continued to dwell in their own land: many referred to them their rival claims, many found a refuge with them from the brutality of the oppressor.” [13]

  “Yes, Socrates,” cried Pericles, “and I wonder how our city can have become so degenerate.”

  “My own view,” replied Socrates, “is that the Athenians, as a consequence of their great superiority, grew careless of themselves, and have thus become degenerate, much as athletes who are in a class by themselves and win the championship easily are apt to grow slack and drop below their rivals. [14]

  “How, then, can they now recover their old virtue?”

  “There is no mystery about it, as I think. If they find out the customs of their ancestors and practise them as well as they did, they will come to be as good as they were; or failing that, they need but to imitate those who now have the pre-eminence and to practise their customs, and if they are equally careful in observing them, they will be as good as they, and, if more careful, even better.” [15]

  “That means that it is a long march for our city to perfection. For when will Athenians show the Lacedaemonian reverence for age, seeing that they despise all their elders, beginning with their own fathers? When will they adopt the Lacedaemonian system of training, seeing that they not only neglect to make themselves fit, but mock at those who take the trouble to do so? [16] When will they reach that standard of obedience to their rulers, seeing that they make contempt of rulers a point of honour? Or when will they attain that harmony, seeing that, instead of working together for the general good, they are more envious and bitter against one another than against the rest of the world, are the most quarrelsome of men in public and private assemblies, most often go to law with one another, and would rather make profit of one another so than by mutual service, and while regarding public affairs as alien to themselves, yet fight over them too, and find their chief enjoyment in having the means to carry on such strife? [17] So it comes about that mischief and evil grow apace in the city, enmity and mutual hatred spring up among the people, so that I am always dreading that some evil past bearing may befall the city.” [18]

  “No, no, Pericles, don’t think the wickedness of the Athenians so utterly past remedy. Don’t you see what good discipline they maintain in their fleets, how well they obey the umpires in athletic contests, how they take orders from the choir-trainers as readily as any?” [19]

  “Ah yes, and strange indeed it is that such men submit themselves to their masters, and yet the infantry and cavalry, who are supposed to be the pick of the citizens for good character, are the most insubordinate.” [20]

  Then Socrates asked, “But what of the Court of the Areopagus, Pericles? Are not its members persons who have won approval?”

  “Certainly.”

  “Then do you know of any who decide the cases that come before them and perform all their other functions more honourably, more in accordance with law, with more dignity and justice?”

  “I am not finding fault with the Areopagus.”

  “Then you must not despair of Athenian discipline.” [21]

  “But, you see, in the army, where good conduct, discipline, submission are most necessary, our people pay no attention to these things.”

  “This may be due to the incompetence of the officers. You must have noticed that no one attempts to exercise authority over our harpists, choristers and dancers, if he is incompetent, nor over wrestlers or wrestlers who also box? All who have authority over them can tell where they learned their business; but most of our generals are improvisors. [22] However, I don’t suppose you are one of this sort. I suppose you can say when you began to learn strategy as well as when you began wrestling. Many of the principles, I think, you have inherited from your father, and many others you have gathered from every source from which you could learn anything useful to a general. [23] I think, too, that you take much trouble that you may not unconsciously lack any knowledge useful to a general; and if you find that you don’t know anything, you seek out those who have the knowledge, grudging neither gifts nor thanks, that you may learn what you don’t know from them and may have the help of good coaching.” [24]

  “I can see, Socrates, that in saying this you don’t really think I study these things, but you are trying to show me that one who is going to command an army must study all of them; and of course I admit that you are right.” [25]

  “Have you observed, Pericles, that our frontier is protected by great mountains extending to Boeotia, through which there are steep and narrow passes leading into our land, and that the interior is cut across by rugged mountains?”

  “Certainly.” [26]

  “Further, have you heard that the Mysians and Pisidians, occupying very rugged country in the Great King’s territory and lightly armed, contrive to overrun and damage the King’s territory and to preserve their own freedom?”

  “Yes, I have heard so.” [27]

  “And don’t you think that active young Athenians, more lightly armed and occupying the mountains that protect our country, would prove a thorn in the side of the enemy and a strong bulwark of defence to our people?”

  “Socrates,” replied Pericles, “I think all these suggestions too have a practical value.” [28]

  “Then, since you like them, adopt them, my good fellow. Any part of them that you carry out will bring honour to you and good to the state; and should you fail in part, you will neither harm the state nor disgrace yourself.”

  6. Ariston’s son, Glaucon, was attempting to become an orator and striving for headship in the state, though he was less than twenty years old; and none of his friends or relations could check him, though he would get himself dragged from the platform and make himself a laughing-stock. Only Socrates, who took an interest in him for the sake of Plato and Glaucon’s son Charmides, managed to check him. [2]

  For once on meeting him, he stopped him and contrived to engage his attention by saying: “Glaucon, have you made up your mind to be our chief man in the state?”

  “I have, Socrates.”

  “Well, upon my word there’s no more honourable ambition in the world; for obviously, if you gain your object, you will be able to get whatever you want, and you will have the means of helping your friends: you will lift up your father’s house and exalt your fatherland; and you will make a name for yourself first at home, later on in Greece, and possibly, like Themistocles, in foreign lands as well; wherever you go, you will be a man of mark.” [3]

  When Glaucon heard this, he felt proud and gladly lingered.

  Next Socrates asked, “Well, Glaucon, as you want to win honour, is it not obvious that you must benefit your city?”

  “Most certainly.”

  “Pray don’t be reticent, then; but tell us how you propose to begin your services to the state.” [4]

  As Glaucon remained dumb, apparently considering for the first time how to begin, Socrates said: “If you wanted to add to a friend’s fortune, you would set about making him richer. Will you try, then, to make your city richer?”

  “Certainly.” [5]

  “Would she not be richer if she had a larger revenue?”

  “Oh y
es, presumably.”

  “Now tell me, from what sources are the city’s revenues at present derived and what is their total? No doubt you have gone into this matter, in order to raise the amount of any that are deficient and supply any that are lacking.”

  “Certainly not,” exclaimed Glaucon, “I haven’t gone into that.” [6]

  “Well, if you have left that out, tell us the expenditure of the city. No doubt you intend to cut down any items that are excessive.”

  “The fact is, I haven’t had time yet for that either.”

  “Oh, then we will postpone the business of making the city richer; for how is it possible to look after income and expenditure without knowing what they are?” [7]

  “Well, Socrates, one can make our enemies contribute to the city’s wealth.”

  “Yes, of course, provided he is stronger than they; but if he be weaker, he may lose what she has got instead.”

  “True.” [8]

  “Therefore, in order to advise her whom to fight, it is necessary to know the strength of the city and of the enemy, so that, if the city be stronger, one may recommend her to go to war, but if weaker than the enemy, may persuade her to beware.”

  “You are right.” [9]

  “First, then, tell us the naval and military strength of our city, and then that of her enemies.”

  “No, of course I can’t tell you out of my head.”

  “Well, if you have made notes, fetch them, for I should greatly like to hear this.”

  “But, I tell you, I haven’t yet made any notes either.” [10]

  “Then we will postpone offering advice about war too for the present. You are new to power, and perhaps have not had time to investigate such big problems. But the defence of the country, now, I feel sure you have thought about that, and know how many of the garrisons are well placed and how many are not, and how many of the guards are efficient and how many are not; and you will propose to strengthen the well-placed garrisons and to do away with those that are superfluous.” [11]

  “No, no; I shall propose to do away with them all, for the only effect of maintaining them is that our crops are stolen.”

  “But if you do away with the garrisons, don’t you think that anyone will be at liberty to rob us openly? However, have you been on a tour of inspection, or how do you know that they are badly maintained?”

  “By guess-work.”

  “Then shall we wait to offer advice on this question too until we really know, instead of merely guessing?”

  “Perhaps it would be better.”

  “Now for the silver mines. [12] I am sure you have not visited them, and so cannot tell why the amount derived from them has fallen.”

  “No, indeed, I have not been there.”

  “To be sure: the district is considered unhealthy, and so when you have to offer advice on the problem, this excuse will serve.”

  “You’re chaffing me.” [13]

  “Ah, but there’s one problem I feel sure you haven’t overlooked: no doubt you have reckoned how long the corn grown in the country will maintain the population, and how much is needed annually, so that you may not be caught napping, should the city at any time be short, and may come to the rescue and relieve the city by giving expert advice about food.”

  “What an overwhelming task, if one has got to include such things as that in one’s duties!” [14]

  “But, you know, no one will ever manage even his own household successfully unless he knows all its needs and sees that they are all supplied. Seeing that our city contains more than ten thousand houses, and it is difficult to look after so many families at once, you must have tried to make a start by doing something for one, I mean your uncle’s? It needs it; and if you succeed with that one, you can set to work on a larger number. But if you can’t do anything for one, how are you going to succeed with many? If a man can’t carry one talent, it’s absurd for him to try to carry more than one, isn’t it?” [15]

  “Well, I could do something for uncle’s household if only he would listen to me.”

  “What? You can’t persuade your uncle, and yet you suppose you will be able to persuade all the Athenians, including your uncle, to listen to you? [16] Pray take care, Glaucon, that your daring ambition doesn’t lead to a fall! Don’t you see how risky it is to say or do what you don’t understand? Think of others whom you know to be the sort of men who say and do what they obviously don’t understand. Do you think they get praise or blame by it? [17] And think of those who understand what they say and what they do. You will find, I take it, that the men who are famous and admired always come from those who have the widest knowledge, and the infamous and despised from the most ignorant. [18] Therefore, if you want to win fame and admiration in public life, try to get a thorough knowledge of what you propose to do. If you enter on a public career with this advantage over others, I should not be surprised if you gained the object of your ambition quite easily.”

  7. Seeing that Glaucon’s son, Charmides, was a respectable man and far more capable than the politicians of the day, and nevertheless shrank from speaking in the assembly and taking a part in politics, he said: “Tell me, Charmides, what would you think of a man who was capable of gaining a victory in the great games and consequently of winning honour for himself and adding to his country’s fame in the Greek world, and yet refused to compete?”

  “I should think him a poltroon and a coward, of course.” [2]

  “Then if a man were to shrink from state business though capable of discharging it with advantage to the state and honour to himself, wouldn’t it be reasonable to think him a coward?”

  “Perhaps; but why ask me that?”

  “Because I fancy that you shrink from work that is within your powers, work in which it is your duty as a citizen to take a hand.”

  “What makes you think so? [3] In what sort of work have you discovered my powers?”

  “In your intercourse with public men. Whenever they take counsel with you, I find that you give excellent advice, and whenever they make a mistake, your criticism is sound.” [4]

  “A private conversation is a very different thing from a crowded debate, Socrates.”

  “But, you know, a man who is good at figures counts as well in a crowd as in solitude; and those who play the harp best in private excel no less in a crowd.” [5]

  “But surely you see that bashfulness and timidity come natural to a man, and affect him far more powerfully in the presence of a multitude than in private society?”

  “Yes, and I mean to give you a lesson. The wisest do not make you bashful, and the strongest do not make you timid; yet you are ashamed to address an audience of mere dunces and weaklings. Who are they that make you ashamed? [6] The fullers or the cobblers or the builders or the smiths or the farmers or the merchants, or the traffickers in the market-place who think of nothing but buying cheap and selling dear? For these are the people who make up the Assembly. [7] You behave like a man who can beat trained athletes and is afraid of amateurs! You are at your ease when you talk with the first men in the state, some of whom despise you, and you are a far better talker than the ordinary run of politicians; and yet you are shy of addressing men who never gave a thought to public affairs and haven’t learnt to despise you — all because you fear ridicule!” [8]

  “Well, don’t you think the Assembly often laughs at sound argument?”

  “Yes, and so do the others; and that’s why I am surprised that you, who find it easy to manage them when they do it, think you will be quite unable to deal with the Assembly. [9] My good man, don’t be ignorant of yourself: don’t fall into the common error. For so many are in such a hurry to pry into other people’s business that they never turn aside to examine themselves. Don’t refuse to face this duty then: strive more earnestly to pay heed to yourself; and don’t neglect public affairs, if you have the power to improve them. If they go well, not only the people, but your friends and you yourself at least as much as they will profit.”

 
; 8. When Aristippus attempted to cross-examine Socrates in the same fashion as he had been cross-examined by him in their previous encounter, Socrates, wishing to benefit his companions, answered like a man who is resolved to do what is right, and not like a debater guarding against any distortion of the argument. [2]

  Aristippus asked if he knew of anything good, in order that if Socrates mentioned some good thing, such as food, drink, money, health, strength, or daring, he might show that it is sometimes bad. But he, knowing that when anything troubles us we need what will put an end to the trouble, gave the best answer: [3] “Are you asking me,” he said, “whether I know of anything good for a fever?”

  “No, not that.”

  “For ophthalmia?”

  “No, nor that.”

  “For hunger?”

  “No, not for hunger either.”

  “Well, but if you are asking me whether I know of anything good in relation to nothing, I neither know nor want to know.” [4]

  Again Aristippus asked him whether he knew of anything beautiful: “Yes, many things,” he replied.

  “All like one another?”

  “On the contrary, some are as unlike as they can be.”

  “How then can that which is unlike the beautiful be beautiful?”

  “The reason, of course, is that a beautiful wrestler is unlike a beautiful runner, a shield beautiful for defence is utterly unlike a javelin beautiful for swift and powerful hurling.” [5]

  “That is the same answer as you gave to my question whether you knew of anything good.”

  “You think, do you, that good is one thing and beautiful another? Don’t you know that all things are both beautiful and good in relation to the same things? In the first place, Virtue is not a good thing in relation to some things and a beautiful thing in relation to others. Men, again, are called ‘beautiful and good’ in the same respect and in relation to the same things: it is in relation to the same things that men’s bodies look beautiful and good and that all other things men use are thought beautiful and good, namely, in relation to those things for which they are useful.” [6]