THE TIMES
Have you a view right now?
BISHOP CAINES
I have not.
THE TIMES
None at all? Even after having talked with Alice Pagett and the others most closely concerned – your own Parish priest, for instance?
BISHOP CAINES
I find the whole matter intriguing, to say the least, but I cannot possibly make any judgement at this stage.
WASHINGTON POST
What would, then, Bishop Caines, constitute a miracle in the eyes of the Church?
BISHOP CAINES
A cure that is medically inexplicable in the present state of science.
DAILY EXPRESS
When will the Medical Bureau be organized?
BISHOP CAINES
It’s being organized right now.
DAILY EXPRESS
And how will it operate?
BISHOP CAINES
Well, it will consist of at least twelve medical men—
JOURNAL DE GENEVA
All Roman Catholics?
BISHOP CAINES
No, most certainly not.
DAILY EXPRESS
But will it be an independent body?
BISHOP CAINES
Absolutely, although the director of the Bureau and several members will be employed by the Church. Others will be gathered from interested medical and scientific research units. Medical records of each cured person will be examined and the individual’s own GP and the hospital under which they are receiving treatment will be consulted. They will, naturally, undertake their own thorough medical examination of each cured person and a dossier will be kept. Their findings will eventually be passed on to the International Committee, who will make the final recommendation.
ASSOCIATED PRESS
What will be the criteria? For a miracle, I mean.
BISHOP CAINES
Perhaps Monsignor Delgard would like to answer that?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
I think it should be clearly stated: the Medical Bureau and the International Committee will only be concerned with whether or not the cure is inexplicable, not if it’s a miracle.
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Is there a difference?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
Bishop Caines said earlier that the cure must be medically inexplicable in the present state of science. The Committee will decide upon that aspect, not whether the cures had a religious or mystical connotation. What is considered medically inexplicable today might be perfectly logical a few years hence. It is the bishop and his advisors who must examine the spiritual aspects of the cures and decide if divine intervention is the cause of the recoveries.
The Bureau and the International Committee have to satisfy themselves on the following points:
Was the cure sudden, unexpected and without convalescence?
Is it complete?
Is it lasting? That, ladies and gentlemen, means a certain amount of time – say three or four years – must elapse before the cure can be confirmed.
How serious was the illness?
Was it due to a specific disease? Infirmity due to a mental disorder, for instance, would rule out any acceptance of a miracle cure.
Had the illness been objectively proved by tests, X-rays, or biopsies?
And was the medical treatment previously given responsible in any way, even if in part only, for the cure?
These are the criteria on which the Bureau and the International Committee must be satisfied. There are others, more technical, but I think those I’ve listed will give you the general idea.
PSYCHIC NEWS
Can you tell us, Monsignor Delgard, just what is your involvement in this matter?
BISHOP CAINES
Perhaps I should answer that. At the time of the first cure – when, in fact, Alice Pagett was able to hear and talk again after seven years of being unable to do so – an enormous amount of public interest was created. I felt then that Father Hagan would need some support and guidance in dealing with the crowds who would inevitably descend upon St Joseph’s.
PSYCHIC NEWS
But you’ve been involved in certain cases of unusual phenomena in the past, Monsignor Delgard?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
Yes, that’s correct.
PSYCHIC NEWS
Would you describe them as paranormal?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
(Pause.) They could be termed as such, I suppose.
PSYCHIC NEWS
In fact, haven’t you performed several exorcisms?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
Yes.
PSYCHIC NEWS
Did you and do you now suspect that Alice Pagett might be possessed?
(Laughter.)
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
By the Devil?
(Laughter.)
PSYCHIC NEWS
Or evil spirits.
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
I would think that’s most unlikely. The child seems well-balanced enough to me.
PSYCHIC NEWS
Then why—
BISHOP CAINES
I’ve already explained why Monsignor Delgard was temporarily appointed to St Joseph’s. While it’s true to say he has investigated many strange incidents over the years for the Church and has made a study of psychic phenomena, Monsignor Delgard’s role usually has been – if I might use the term – devil’s advocate rather than devil seeker.
(Laughter.)
You see, the Catholic Church often has to undertake the examination of unusual incidents on behalf of concerned parishioners and clergy. We live in a peculiar world, you know, where human logic is not always applicable to certain events. Monsignor Delgard looks at both aspects of such happenings – natural and unnatural – and usually manages to provide the correct balance. At St Joseph’s we have circumstances that are, without doubt, unnatural, so it’s perfectly sensible to ask for the assistance and advice of someone who has had experience in such matters, and who can also provide a more material assistance in dealing with the public interest. The fact that Monsignor Delgard has performed exorcisms is quite irrelevant in this case.
May we have another question?
DAILY TELEGRAPH
It’s rumoured that Alice Pagett’s illness could have been psychosomatic. Is it true?
BISHOP CAINES
That’s for the medical authorities and the Bureau to decide. But, of course, it’s doubtful that all five of the other illnesses were due to psychosomatic causes.
LE MONDE
What is the Catholic Church’s opinion on faith healing?
BISHOP CAINES
Jesus Christ was the greatest faith healer of all time.
(Laughter.)
GAZETTE (Kent)
; I have a question for Father Hagan. Some years ago you were assistant priest near Maidstone.
FATHER HAGAN
(Pause.) Yes, in a place called Holling-bourne.
GAZETTE (Kent)
You weren’t there for very long, were you, Father?
FATHER HAGAN
About six months, I think.
GAZETTE (Kent)
You left rather suddenly. Could I ask the reason why?
FATHER HAGAN
(Pause.) As assistant priest I went where I was needed most. Often the need was urgent and my departure from one parish to another could be abrupt.
GAZETTE (Kent)
There was no other reason, then, for you to leave Hollingbourne, apart from being required elsewhere?
FATHER HAGAN
As far as I can remember the parish priest of St Mark’s in Lewes had fallen ill and assistance was badly needed.
GAZETTE (Kent)
No other reason?
BISHOP CAINES
Father Hagan has answered your question. May we move on to the next?
DAILY TELEGRAPH
Could this whole business of the miracle cures be a hoax?
BISHOP CAINES
A rather elaborate one, don’t you think? And for what purpose?
DAILY TELEGRAPH
Isn’t Banfield liable to make a considerable amount of money from tourism?
BISHOP CAINES
Yes, I suppose it’s conceivable. The village is already the focus of world attention and I suppose sightseers will flock to St Joseph’s even before the results of our investigations are made known. But unless you believe that all the children and the one adult involved in these cures are swindlers and liars – not to mention marvellous actors –
(Laughter.)
– then I hardly think your suggestion has any merit. And, of course, the children’s parents and their general practitioners would also have to be involved in the fraud.
L’ADIGE
Alice Pagett claims to have seen a vision of the Madonna. Can you comment on this, please?
BISHOP CAINES
Not at this time.
NEW YORK TIMES
Did anyone else see anything? Father Hagan, you were present on two occasions when the child claimed she saw the Virgin Mary – did you see nothing at all?
FATHER HAGAN
I . . . no, no, I can’t say that I did.
NEW YORK TIMES
But did you sense anything strange going on?
FATHER HAGAN
There was certainly atmosphere, yes, a highly charged atmosphere, but I can’t account for it.
OBSERVER
Surely it would have had something to do with the mood of the crowd, wouldn’t it?
FATHER HAGAN
Yes, I suppose so.
OBSERVER
Sorry, Father, I didn’t catch that.
FATHER HAGAN
I said I suppose so. Certainly on the last occasion. Several of the other children present seemed entranced in the same way that Alice was, but they could remember nothing when questioned later.
DAILY MIRROR
What steps are the Church taking to ensure the situation isn’t exploited?
BISHOP CAINES
Exploited?
DAILY MIRROR
Commercially exploited.
BISHOP CAINES
I believe we dealt with that in a previous question. There is very little the Church can to do prevent local traders and businessmen from, shall we say, taking full advantage of the situation. But that is hardly our province and we can only hope that proper restraint and discretion is used.
MORNING STAR
But won’t the Catholic Church itself exploit the situation?
BISHOP CAINES
Why should we do that?
MORNING STAR
For publicity.
BISHOP CAINES
I hardly think God needs publicity.
(Laughter.)
STANDARD
But it wouldn’t harm the Church.
BISHOP CAINES
On the contrary, such publicity could be most damaging. Many churchgoers might have their illusions shattered if what they believe to be genuine miracles performed at St Joseph’s are later proved by the medical authorities to be nothing of the sort. That is one of the reasons the Catholic Church is extremely cautious in such matters.
ASSOCIATED PRESS
Almost to the extent that miracles are harder to prove to the Church than to the layman?
BISHOP CAINES
Yes, in most cases that’s true. In fact, the Medical Bureau at Lourdes dismisses nearly all Lourdes cures as non-miraculous. I believe there have been only sixty or so miraculous cures officially recognized at Lourdes since 1858.
OBSERVER
Many people claim they saw Alice levitate last Sunday. Could I ask Father Hagan and Monsignor Delgard if it really did happen?
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
I can’t be sure. I wasn’t as close to Alice as some of the others. To be perfectly honest, I have no clear recollection.
OBSERVER
Father Hagan?
(Silence.)
MONSIGNOR DELGARD
Father Hagan and I were standing together, so we both had the same view. I don’t . . .
FATHER HAGAN
I think Alice did levitate.
(Disordered questioning.)
ECHO DE LA BOURSE
You actually witnessed this?
FATHER HAGAN
I can only say I think that’s what happened. The grass in the field is long – perhaps she was merely standing on tiptoe. I just can’t be sure.
OBSERVER
But other witnesses say her feet actually left the ground.
FATHER HAGAN
It’s possible. I can’t be sure, though.
(General conversation.)
STANDARD
If it is proved that the cures were miraculous and that Alice Pagett really saw the, er, Virgin Mary, will the girl be proclaimed a saint?
BISHOP CAINES
How do you prove such a thing? And before someone can be considered for canonization they have to be dead for some time.
(Laughter.)
BRIGHTON EVENING COURIER
Why is Alice Pagett being kept hidden away?
BISHOP CAINES
Ah, it’s Mr Fenn, isn’t it? Well, Alice isn’t being kept ‘hidden away’ as you put it. Judging by the amount of media people surrounding the Our Lady of Sion convent in Banfield I certainly wouldn’t have said her whereabouts are secret.
Alice is resting. She has been through an extraordinary experience and, as you c
an imagine, is quite exhausted both physically and emotionally. She needs peace and quiet – her own doctor is adamant that she receives just that. And, of course, she’s there with the full agreement of her parents. Alice is a delicate child, and until recently, classed as an invalid. She has to be treated with great care.
BRIGHTON EVENING COURIER
Is she undergoing medical tests?
BISHOP CAINES
Yes, very stringent tests.
BRIGHTON EVENING COURIER
And interrogation by the Church authorities?
BISHOP CAINES
Interrogation is far too strong a word. Obviously she is being questioned, but I promise you she is under no pressure. I think her only danger at the moment is that she might be smothered by kindness.
(Laughter.)
BRIGHTON EVENING COURIER
How long will Alice be kept at the convent?
Shrine Page 17
