* In John Ford Noonan’s very funny play Talking Things Over with Chekhov, a story is told. It lived for me with such intensity that I came to decide it was true. Whether or not it actually happened was beside the point. It was just too good a story not to believe it took place.
*Papa, by Gregory Hemingway.
*The Diary of Anaïs Nin (Vol. 1) (New York: The Swallow Press and Harcourt, Brace & World, Inc., 1966), p. 62.
ACKNOWLEDGMENTS
There are scores of people I wish to thank. First would be my good friend Michael Lennon, who not only urged this book upon me but then demonstrated that there were hundreds of relevant remarks made over forty years of my interviews that he had collected for my archive. Presented with the cache, I began to perceive that the form of a legitimate work was present, barely visible, but with the unmistakable heft of a book.
Lennon made a first classification of the topics. I went on to pursue another scheme, which owes a fair amount of its shape to his first assemblage. From such gleanings and sortings was this book initially put together. Needless to add, much new material was then added by me: Dwelling upon these matters naturally incited a good number of new thoughts, anecdotes, and small essays.
In addition, the need arose for more interviews to fill a few thematic gaps. In London, Peter Florence brought together several young men and women to put queries to me (referred to in the Source Notes as the London Master Class); James Fleming, of Suffolk University, assembled a larger group (the Suffolk University Master Class), and Larry Shainberg and I had a most useful conversation on Samuel Beckett.
Let me thank by name the five members of the London Master Class: Martin Aaron, Peter Florence, Mark Mills, Merope Mills, Clare Sears; also, the many who offered their stimulus to the Suffolk group: Josette Akresh, Blair Bigelow, Jane Brox, Peter Caputo, Thomas Connolly, Carol Dine, James Fleming, Nick Kain, George Kalogeris, Kristy Langone, Barry Leeds, J. Michael Lennon, Michael Madden, Betty Mandl, Fred Marchant, Anthony Merzlak, Quentin Miller, John Mulrooney, Larry Shainberg, Christopher Sherman, Alexandra Todd, and, to my great pleasure at his presence, Christopher Ricks.
In addition, I want to offer my appreciation to the men and women whose interviews across the last four decades contribute directly to matters here. These extracts, stripped for the most part of their questions, would leave them anonymous but for Lennon’s source notes. One needs, then, the compensatory pleasure of citing them here, with my thanks and, on occasion, my gratitude. They are: Sean Abbott, Laura Adams, John W. Aldridge, Harvey Aronson, Paul Attanasio, William Baises, Robert Begiebing, Melvyn Bragg, the late Vincent Canby, Anthony R. Cannela, the late Paul Carroll, the late Frank Crowther, Robin Davies, Edward de Grazia, Digby Diehl, the late Buzz Farbar, Debbie Forman, David Frost, Matthew Grace, Jorie Green, Lawrence Grobel, Robert Harvey, Patricia Holt, Peter E. Howard, Richard Howard, Carolyn T. Hughes, Samuel M. Hughes, Stan Isaacs, Michiko Kakutani, Eugene Kennedy, Julia Braun Kessler, Ramona Koval, Paul Krassner, Brian Lamb, Marshall Ledger, Michael Lee, Barry H. Leeds, J. Michael Lennon, Robert F. Lucid, Michael Mailer, Carole Mallory, Steven Marcus, Carol McCabe, Joseph McElroy, Jay McInerney, Alastair McKay, Cathleen Medwick, Robert Merrill, Hilary Mills, Lewis Nichols, Henry Nuwer, Brian Peterson, George Plimpton, Tammy Polonsky, Dermot Purgavie, Steve Roday, Charles Ruas, Eric James Schroeder, Michael Schumacher, Barbara Probst Solomon, Scott Spencer, Richard G. Stern, Curt Suplee, Toby Thompson, Dan Treisman, Michael Ventura, Bill Vitka, W. J. Weatherby, William Wilborn, David Young.
I also wish to acknowledge a debt to my assistant, Judith McNally, for her astute and classy insights into the occasional merits and demerits of The Spooky Art, to Veronica Windholz for her—as always—impeccable copy-editing, and to Ann Godoff for her incisive overview of how to publish this work. In addition, I want to thank my sister, Barbara Wasserman, and my son John Buffalo Mailer for their early and sensitive readings of the manuscript.
Last, and never least—to my wife, Norris, that most talented lady, who offers (among her other gifts) one indispensable ingredient: the creation of a daily atmosphere in which one can count on getting the work out without shifts of weather and/or marital mishaps. That is no mean virtue to find in a mate when the lady is, in her own right, one hell of a bang-up novelist.
SOURCE NOTES
BY J. MICHAEL LENNON, EDITOR
From an initial pool of approximately eight hundred items, Mailer selected about 190, drawing on nearly a hundred different sources. He then added approximately fifty more items, which either were written expressly for this book or were taken from the transcripts of unpublished interviews or forums on writing. In all but a few instances, he has incorporated the questions of his interviewers in his replies. Sometimes he has expanded his comments; just as often he has cut them, as comparison with the originals will demonstrate. But in all cases he has respected the spirit of the exchanges: His interlocutors of the past will easily recognize Mailer’s answers.
To satisfy those who wish to know the provenance of an item, the following source notes give both the original place of publication and, whenever possible, the most readily available reprint. To aid readers who would like to obtain the full original source, inclusive page numbers are given in each instance. Those seeking more context or nuance on these matters are advised to consult a recently published reference work, Norman Mailer: Works and Days, by J. Michael and Donna Pedro Lennon, published by Sligo Press, 67 South Pioneer Avenue, Shavertown, Pennsylvania, 18708. Website: normanmailerworksanddays.com.
PART I
LIT BIZ
1. I am tempted: First publication.
2. In 1963: First publication.
3. Steven Marcus: Do you need: “Norman Mailer: The Art of Fiction XXXII,” interview with Steven Marcus, Paris Review no. 31 (winter–spring 1964): 28–58; rpt: Conversations with Norman Mailer, ed. J. Michael Lennon (Jackson: University Press of Mississippi, 1988).
4. I don’t know: Preface, Fiction Writer’s Handbook, by Hallie and Whit Burnett (New York: Harper and Row, 1975) xvii–xxi.
5. That is the best: Personal interview, Larry Shainberg, 10 and 17 March 2002, Provincetown, Massachusetts.
6. In any event: Suffolk University Master Class, Boston, 3 March 2002, organized by James Fleming. Participants: Josette Akresh, Blair Bigelow, Jane Brox, Peter Caputo, Thomas Connolly, Carol Dine, James Fleming, Nick Kain, George Kalogeris, Kristy Langone, Barry Leeds, J. Michael Lennon, Michael Madden, Bette Mandl, Fred Marchant, Anthony Merzlak, Quentin Miller, John Mulrooney, Christopher Ricks, Larry Shainberg, Christopher Sherman, Alexandra Todd.
7. How I aspired: “Norman’s Conquests,” interview with Julia Braun Kessler, Daily News Magazine [Van Nuys, Calif.] 29 May 1983: 25–27.
8. Samuel Goldwyn: Introduction, A Transit to Narcissus (New York: Howard Fertig, 1978) vii–x.
9. Soon after finishing: “A Conversation with Norman Mailer,” interview with Michael Lee, Cape Cod Voice 2–15 August 2001: 12–13, 53–54.
10. Steven Marcus: Can you say: Marcus interview.
11. I think I suffered: “In and Out of Books,” interview with Lewis Nichols, The New York Times Book Review 14 March 1965: 8.
12. Fifty years after: Introduction, The Naked and the Dead, fiftieth anniversary edition (New York: Henry Holt, 1998) xi–xiii.
13. Steven Marcus: What methods: Marcus interview.
14. Barbary Shore: London Master Class, Savoy Hotel, 5 February 2002, organized by Peter Florence. Participants: Martin Aaron, Peter Florence, Mark Mills, Merope Mills, Clare Sears.
15. Steven Marcus: What about The Deer Park: Marcus interview.
16. In his review: “The Mind of an Outlaw,” Esquire November 1959: 87–94; rpt: as “Fourth Advertisement for Myself: The Last Draft of The Deer Park,” Advertisements for Myself (New York: Putnam, 1959).
17. Now that this: First publication.
18. Writing a best-seller: “A Man Half Full,” rev. of A Man in Full, by Tom Wolfe, The New York Review of Books 17 De
cember 1998: 18, 20–23; rpt: The Time of Our Time (1998; New York: Modern Library, 1999).
19. The ideal: London Master Class.
20. Today, large literary canvases: “Una Conversación con Norman Mailer,” interview with Barbara Probst Solomon, El País [Madrid] 4 October 1981: 10–15; rpt: in Solomon’s collection, Horse-Trading and Ecstasy (San Francisco: North Point Press, 1989).
21. It’s counterproductive: “The Critic’s Choice: Norman Mailer Talks About Journalism and Millennialism,” interview with Jorie Green and Tammy Polonsky, Daily Pennsylvanian 4 April 1995: 3.
22. A best-seller strategy: “A Man Half Full.”
23. Editing tends to make: “Mailer: It’s Easier to Talk of Sex Than Death,” interview with Eugene Kennedy, Chicago Tribune Bookworld 10 April 1983: 1, 7.
24. My literary generation: “A Literary Lion Roars,” interview with Carolyn T. Hughes, Poets and Writers 29 (March–April 2001): 40–45.
25. Right now the smart money: Untitled interview with William Baises, Robert Harvey, Robert Merrill, Henry Nuwer, and William Wilborn, Brushfire [University of Nevada at Reno] 23 (November–December 1973): 7–20.
26. Bookstore managers: “Mailer Back in Arena, Pushing ‘Oswald,’ ” interview with Carol McCabe, Providence Journal 28 May 1995: El, E9.
27. I treat bad reviews: “Unbloodied by the Critical Pounding, Norman Mailer Defends the Egyptian Novel that Took a Decade to Write,” interview with George Plimpton, People 30 May 1983: 53–54, 59–60, rpt: Conversations with Norman Mailer.
28. Michael Schumacher: Should a writer: “Modern Evenings: An Interview with Norman Mailer,” Writer’s Digest October 1983: 30–34.
29. It usually doesn’t matter: Lee interview.
30. Large literary success: London Master Class.
31. Ah, publicity: First publication.
32. I think for any novelist: “Mailer Talking,” interview with Michiko Kakutani, The New York Times Book Review 6 June 1982: 3, 38–41; rpt: Conversations with Norman Mailer.
33. For literary people: Kakutani interview.
34. Every time a story: Kakutani interview.
35. If you are ever: Suffolk Master Class.
36. On this practical note: Interview with Edward de Grazia, Girls Lean Back Everywhere: The Law of Obscenity and the Assault on Genius, by Edward de Grazia (New York: Random House, 1992) 520–21.
37. I remember, years ago: “The Big Bite,” Esquire June 1963: 23–24, 28, 32; “Some Children of the Goddess: Further Evaluations of the Talent in the Room,” Esquire July 1963: 63–69, 105. These two essays are combined as “Some Children of the Goddess” in Cannibals and Christians (New York: Dial, 1966).
38. One more note: First publication.
39. One of the cruelest remarks: First publication.
40. Being a novelist: “Prisoner of Success,” interview with Paul Attanasio, Boston Phoenix 24 February 1981: 1–2, 11; rpt: Pieces and Pontifications (Boston: Little Brown, 1982).
41. It’s not advisable: Attanasio interview.
42. I remember saying: “Mailer Opus,” interview with Sean Abbott, At Random Magazine May 1998 < http://www.randomhouse.com/atrandom/normanmailer/index/html>.
43. Sometimes you write: Suffolk Master Class.
CRAFT
1. Before we can talk: First publication.
2. The piece that follows: First publication.
3. I am going to speak: “The Hazards and Sources of Writing,” Michigan Quarterly Review 24 (summer 1985): 391–402; rpt: Speaking of Writing: Selected Hopwood Lectures, ed. Nicholas Delbanco (Ann Arbor: University of Michigan Press, 1990).
4. To the risks: London Master Class.
5. Style, of course: Preface, Advertisements for Myself (1959; New York: Berkley, 1976) v–vii; rpt: Pieces and Pontifications.
6. In The Deer Park: “The Pursuit of Experience,” interview with W. J. Weatherby, Manchester Guardian Weekly 28 September 1961: 14.
7. Finding one’s own manner: London Master Class.
8. Style is character: Marcus interview.
9. Style is also a reflection: London Master Class.
10. It is comforting: Plimpton, People.
11. You know, a good skier: “Norman Crosses Swords with Women’s Lib,” interview with Digby Diehl, Los Angeles Times Calendar 14 February 1971: 1, 56.
12. There are two kinds: “Toward a Concept of Norman Mailer,” interview with Samuel M. Hughes, Pennsylvania Gazette [Alumni Magazine of University of Pennsylvania] May 1995: 20–27.
13. Metaphors? You ask: “Literary Ambitions,” interview with J. Michael Lennon, Pieces and Pontifications 163–71.
14. On the other hand: Shainberg interview.
15. A short fictional piece: “A Man Half Full.”
16. Larry Shainberg: You used: Shainberg interview.
17. While Dwight Macdonald: Preface, Discriminations: Essays and Afterthoughts, by Dwight Macdonald (New York: Grossman, 1985) vii–ix.
18. As a corollary: “Some Children of the Goddess.”
19. Third person and first person: “Norman Mailer Interview,” with Romona Koval, Books and Writing 1 September 2000
20. In the first person: London Master Class.
21. First person point of view: “A Conversation with Norman Mailer,” with J. Michael Lennon, New England Review 20 (summer 1999): 138–48.
22. It was not until: Abbott interview.
23. Nonetheless, I have considerable: London Master Class.
24. The CIA: “Mailer’s American Dream,” interview with Patricia Holt, San Francisco Chronicle 17 October 1991: 1, 4.
25. The decisions you make: Lennon, New England Review.
26. Working on The Executioner’s Song: “Mailer’s America,” interview with J. Michael Lennon, Chicago Tribune 29 September 1991: Sec. 13, 18–19, 27.
27. I no longer work: “Creators on Creating: Norman Mailer,” interview with Hilary Mills, Saturday Review January 1981: 46–49, 52–53; rpt: Pieces and Pontifications.
28. For that matter: Plimpton, People.
29. Many young novelists: Suffolk Master Class.
30. Some of my characters: “Norman Mailer: Fact and Fiction,” interview with Harvey Aronson, PD: Sunday Magazine of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch 16 December 1984: 4–6, 22–23.
31. Graham Greene: Aronson interview.
32. Up to now: Marcus interview.
33. The question remains: Marcus interview.
34. I’ve spoken of characters: Marcus interview.
35. Hearn’s death: “Norman Mailer at Columbia,” interview with Joseph McElroy and Columbia students, Columbia: A Magazine of Poetry and Prose no. 6 (spring–summer): 103–15; rpt: Pieces and Pontifications.
36. When it comes: Lennon, “Literary Ambitions.”
37. I’d say try not: “Norman Mailer: ‘The Hubris of the American Vision,’ ” interview with Eric James Schroeder, Vietnam, We’ve All Been There: Interviews with American Writers, ed. Eric James Schroeder (Westport, Conn.: Praeger, 1992) 91–105.
38. Hemingway suffered: Shainberg interview.
39. I’ve been asked: Marcus interview.
40. If a novelist: Attanasio interview.
41. The characters you create: “Norman Mailer: I’m Like a Minor Champ,” interview with Stan Isaacs, LI: Newsday’s Magazine 21 September 1975: 10–13, 22–26.
42. I am not sure: Marcus interview.
43. In large part: “An Author’s Identity,” interview with J. Michael Lennon, Pieces and Pontifications 151–57.
44. One example: London Master Class.
45. I think Capote’s book: “An Interview with Norman Mailer,” with John W. Aldridge, Partisan Review 47 (July 1980): 174–82; rpt: Conversations with Norman Mailer.
46. If you find: McElroy interview.
47. Let me take: McElroy interview.
48. The influence of Henry Adams: Solomon interview. 99 Literary influence: “Mailer and Vidal: The Big Schmooze,” intervie
w with Carole Mallory, Esquire May 1991: 105–12.
49. It’s disturbing to read: Mallory interview.
50. I’m now eighty: Abbott interview.
51. I remember in the summer: McElroy interview.
52. A large part of writing: London Master Class.
53. Writing is wonderful: “The Surreal Professor,” interview with Marshall Ledger, Pennsylvania Gazette May 1983: 14–22.
54. There’s nothing glorious: Kakutani interview.
55. I used to have: “Norman Mailer,” interview with Brian Lamb, Booknotes: America’s Finest Authors on Reading, Writing, and the Power of Ideas, ed. Brian Lamb (New York: Random House, 1997) 162–65.
56. When I read something: London Master Class.
57. I never know what: “Style Is Character: An Interview with Norman Mailer,” with Cathleen Medwick, Vogue May 1983: 279, 343.
58. I think it’s important: Marcus interview.
59. Indeed, many good writers: Schumacher interview.
60. Of course, it’s virtually: Marcus interview.
61. If you can: McElroy interview.
62. Once you are committed: “Norman Mailer: Stupidity Brings Out the Violence in Me,” interview with Lawrence Grobel, Endangered Species: Writers Talk About Their Craft, Their Lives, ed. Lawrence Grobel (Cambridge, Mass.: Da Capo Press, 2001) 289–316.
The Spooky Art: Thoughts on Writing Page 34
