Dave G: It represents many different things to me. It means some people are very skilful, some have got loads of heart, a person like myself has lots of determination but it doesn’t mean that they are tough. I’ve met some great fighters who are very skilful but they are not tough.
Jamie: Could you put all the tough guys you know of into any sort of category, i.e. are they mostly from the Forces, or mostly from broken homes, etc.?
Dave G: No, not really, because I come from a good family. I’m not saying that my father had loads of money, but he was comfortable. I think, generally, tough people come from rough areas like Liverpool, Newcastle, the East End of London, places where things are generally tougher. But there are always odd people like myself who are successful or tough from other areas.
Jamie: If, as you say, you cannot make somebody tough, is it all to do with how you’re brought up? What is the nearest you can get them to what you consider as being tough?
Dave G: You can’t make anybody tough, you have either got it or you haven’t. That’s my own personal opinion on it.
Jamie: As a young lad I had a pal, who was a tough and brilliant street fighter who was rarely defeated. I met him fifteen years later and he was a shadow of his former self, practically flinching if anyone came near him in a threatening manner. It was like his spirit had been broken. Do you think a tough guy can be made to be un-tough?
Dave G: No, I just think it’s approach and a different attitude to life. He was a tough little guy who doesn’t think it means anything to be tough now.
Jamie: What, like he has matured?
Dave G: That’s it, he’s matured. When he was growing up he probably thought he had to be tough to be noticed, but now it’s no longer important to him. You’re not going to believe this but when I was at junior school, the best fighter in our year was a girl; it certainly wasn’t me. She was the toughest one in our year.
Jamie: Do you think it is possible to sense that someone is tough just from the way they carry themselves?
Dave G: No, not really. I think people do try and act tough but you just can’t tell. I’ve seen ordinary fellows who are bloody hard as nails. You just can’t tell.
Jamie: You don’t think you can just sense it when someone walks into a room?
Dave G: No! Because I’ve seen some great boxers who have won championships who don’t even look tough at all.
Jamie: Is it possible to act tough without really being tough?
Dave G: Yeah! Anybody can act tough, can’t they? It’s easy to act tough, but it’s about being able to handle yourself at the end of the day.
Jamie: Most of us have had to do it sometime in our life, right back to school days, to stop ourselves getting beaten up.
Dave G: That’s right, and we don’t want to take that chance of fighting in case we lose so we act tough, hoping that this will win the fight without fighting.
Jamie: I think this is a major time in our lives, no matter what age we are, that we must cross the barrier of acting tough to actually having that fight and taking our first step towards being tough.
Dave G: Absolutely, but even if you have that first fight, be it in the ring or the street, it’s the one that has toughness inbred within them that will go on to be tough whether they win the first fight or not.
Jamie: How would you deal with a tough guy who is in your face, prompting you to kick off with him? Have you ever had that situation?
Dave G: I’ve had it a couple of times even when I had my title in boxing. My message to everybody is run like hell, get out the way. As I’ve always said, if you’re in a pub and someone wants to fight you, there’s no promoter there to give you money afterwards. You could end up getting a good hiding for nothing. So you might as well just get away. There are plenty more pubs to drink in.
Jamie: We touched on this next question earlier regarding the girl in your junior school, with regards to the toughness of male and female. Would you be happy to let women take the place of men on the front-line of pubs and clubs?
Dave G: I don’t think so. I believe it’s men for some jobs and ladies for other jobs. You can’t do that.
Jamie: Some would regard that as bit of a sexist viewpoint.
Dave G: No, no. I mean, like boxing, I’ve seen the ladies boxing in Las Vegas. It’s terrible, horrible. You see a lovely pretty girl with a bleeding nose, to me it’s just unbelievable, I don’t believe in it at all. What do you think?
Jamie: Well morally, I would not feel comfortable sitting in a factory packing bullets while the women were out there fighting in the front-line.
Dave G: How can anyone sit indoors looking after the kids while the wife is out earning the living as a professional boxer? It just doesn’t sound right, does it? Mind you, we could be better looking then, ha!
Jamie: I don’t think that would help us, though. I think we’re beyond saving!
Dave G: I don’t think many women would want to carry broken noses around. Also, even in your days as a nightclub doorman, it was naturally a male-dominated profession and it just wouldn’t have looked right having a woman on the door.
Jamie: Why?
Dave G: Because you want to feel you’re secure. You’re better off with a six-foot-four chap standing there and ready to deal with any problems, who can sort it out very quickly.
Jamie: So are you saying that men only feel secure being looked after by other men who look tough.
Dave G: Absolutely.
Jamie: What do you feel the role of boxing has in making tough guys tough?
Dave G: Well, it’s very difficult to say. I just think it’s dedication, ability, training, you’ve got to believe in yourself. I just can’t really pinpoint one thing. It’s many things but for me, I’ve got to say, before I fought Carlos Palomino for the world championship, which was my twenty-fifth fight, having been unbeaten twenty-four times I really believed I was unbeatable. But when you do get beat, it takes something away from you. It’s no different to being in the street. It just takes something away from you. Did you ever experience that? Jamie: Yeah, I must admit. As a young black belt I thought I was unbeatable in the street. Whether through luck or skill I was winning fights with ease, but the biggest awakening I had was when one guy pulverized me. He didn’t give a toss as to what belt I was. He kicked my arse. It was the biggest favour anyone had done for me. I changed the way in which I train from that day on. The sad thing, though, was that up until that day I loved karate but losing that fight took that away from me. I have never enjoyed the art since. Silly really, because it wasn’t karate that lost the fight, it was me. Same as it was you that were beaten on your twenty-fifth fight and not the fault of boxing.
Dave G: I think it proves to everybody that you never stop learning. That’s what it’s about.
Jamie: When you first took me to your house, I saw a picture on your living room wall of Sugar Ray Leonard. You had so much respect for him and will never be able to forget your fight with him. Do you regard him as being tough?
Dave G: I regard him as being a complete boxer, really. He could fight, he could box, he could move, he was a very intelligent fellow. I think he’s perhaps the nearest we have ever been to the most complete fighter in the world. Not because he beat me. Everybody thinks I’m biased, but I thought that Muhammad Ali was the greatest fighter ever. But I regarded Ali as lacking one thing, the big punch. Ali was not a big puncher at all. He beat people by a combination of punches but Sugar Ray could do everything that Ali could do, but he could punch as well. That’s why I think I have so much respect for him. I also think it was very nice of him to have respect for myself to come over to England to see me. I think that’s what you get in sportsmanship, really, in all sports.
Jamie: But even with all you’ve said about Sugar Ray Leonard, you still haven’t answered my question. Do you think he is tough?
Dave G: Oh! I think he’s tough. I think he’s tough, definitely tough. Even though [Roberto] Duran beat him on points, in the next fight he made
Duran look like a bit averse with Duran retiring in round five.
Jamie: I can also remember a time around twelve years ago when you were watching videotapes of Sugar Ray. I was watching videos of you and your son was watching videotapes of me doing my martial arts. Do you think that toughness is more in the eye of the beholder rather than the holder, meaning that we always regard others as being tough rather than ourselves?
Dave G: I still have those tapes; the twins watch them now. Yes, I do think toughness is seen more in the eye of the beholder. I often say, “Christ, he’s a bloody tough guy” when talking about someone that is not connected to fighting in any shape or form. Then someone will say to me, “You’ve got to be joking, you’re twice as tough as him,” but we don’t see it in ourselves, do we? We definitely see it more in other people.
Jamie: I can remember once sitting in your Mercedes waiting for you, when a group of lads came over to get a glimpse of you. Although you weren’t there, they spotted your number plate DAV 8OY, which looked like DAV BOY (Dave Boy). We began chatting and it took me a while to convince them that I was not a boxer. They decided that I must be an East End gangster purely because of the way I speak and look, and that I must be your driver. I mention this because I know many people associate toughness with areas like the East End, Glasgow, and so on, and many boxing fans actually thought that you were from the East End, which you’re not. Do you think that areas or accents have any bearing or connection with being tough?
Dave G: I’ve still got the personalized plate but the Merc’s gone. I’ve had one or two Mercs since then. As for accents, I do definitely. If someone comes from Glasgow and you hear that Glaswegian accent, you think Christ, he’s from Glasgow. I had the greatest time of my life in Glasgow; I came back in stitches. Ha! But seriously, the East End has a reputation for being hard, Glasgow, Liverpool, and you get a lot of good fighters from each of these places. I am just a one-off from the Fens but tough within my art as you are with your martial arts, but you also have the East End accent to go with it. My accent doesn’t conjure up the image of toughness. So I would say that accents do have a connection with toughness but more so because you are exposed to many people who are tough that have the same regional accents. I would say toughness is in you, regardless of your accent, but some accents make you less likely to becoming a target for a bully. I certainly think that the East End accent is a tough accent.
Jamie: Can you be tough and still be nice?
Dave G: Look at Brian Jacks! I did the TV show Superstars with him about ten times and what a lovely guy he is, but boy is he tough – but a very nice man. There’s different ways of being tough. When he was fifteen his father sent him to Japan to train. He couldn’t speak a word of Japanese and that toughened him up as well. What a tough man. He stayed out there for two years to learn the business properly. In fact, I played golf with him last week. I was also chatting to Glen Murphy from the TV show London’s Burning. He’s a mate of yours, isn’t he?
Jamie: Yeah, I know Glen. His dad ran a pub called the Bridgehouse in Canning Town, East London where we all grew up. Glen went into boxing and I went into martial arts. Later on he came to train with me along with Terry Marsh to gain their black belts in my New Breed training system. Glen had to give up due to a back injury and Terry could not get leave from Brixton prison to come and train, so both came to a natural end. Dave, thanks for answering my questions.
Dave G: You’re welcome!
JOHN BRAWN (IRELAND)
Ireland’s Leading Self-Defence Instructor
Introducing … John Brawn
BORN IN 1961, John Brawn grew up in Westport, County Mayo, Ireland, where he still lives, and is Ireland’s leading self-defence instructor and recognized internationally as an expert in both self-defence and security. Humble, polite, respectful and a father of two, John is also undeniably one of the toughest men in the country.
Having started his martial-arts training in the early 1980s, John was appointed as a coach with the Irish Amateur Boxing Association in 1989 and three years later became a black belt in karate Kyokushinkai. In 1993 he became an instructor with the Association and Register of Self Protection Instructors. In 1995 he reached second dan black belt with the Irish Karate Kyokushinkai and started his successful security company providing security and close protection (bodyguard) services, as well as teaching practical self-defence and self-protection techniques worldwide. That same year he earned his Certificate of Completion in Advanced Learning Technologies for Close Combat and became an instructor with the US-based Rape Awareness and Prevention Organization.
John is currently the Irish director for several of the world’s most advanced self-defence and protection techniques such as the Blue Maxx and Bulletman. He is also an exponent of kettlebell techniques of fitness and organizes regular seminars in Ireland and worldwide.
Living up to his surname, this chapter – written specially for this book by Irish writer Barbara Preston – is part biography of John Brawn, Ireland’s toughest man, and part anecdotal tales from his sixteen years working the doors.
A HARD MAN IN A QUIET COUNTRY
By Barbara Preston
There are many excellent, tough security professionals, martial arts experts and instructors out there; so what qualifies John Brawn to be included in a book about hard men? A quietly spoken man with a shy smile, John is modest and self-effacing about his abilities, but says that when it comes to security and protection “the smile sucks them in and then the explosion happens”. It isn’t looking or acting tough that’s important, it’s knowing how and when to be hard that matters.
The small town of Westport on the shore of Clew Bay, County Mayo, produces more than its fair share of Ireland’s poets, artists and musicians, but it’s not the kind of place where you’d expect to find one of the hardest men in the country – but John Brawn is exactly that. Recognized worldwide as an expert in both self-defence and security work, Geoff Thompson (award-winning writer and martial-arts expert) describes John as “one of the most powerful strikers and experienced martial artists I have ever had the pleasure to work with”.
John Brawn grew up in the 1970s, attending the local Christian Brothers’ school. Those were the days when heavy-handed teachers and playground bullying were the norm and John wasn’t one of the bigger boys in his class. Around the age of twelve he decided that he needed to learn to take care of himself. With little opportunity to join a club, he got some Bruce Lee videos and some weights, hung a punch bag in the shed and started to train. It didn’t take long to work out that he needed a more methodical approach to reach his goal of being good at self-defence so he bought a book on karate and began his life-long love of martial arts.
After a couple of years training on his own John wanted more. There was no karate club in the town so he joined the (now famous) local boxing club, St Anne’s, to further his training. He says he was a mediocre boxer without the psychological edge to do well in tournaments. He would lose bouts on split decisions, or find himself matched against the eventual championship winner, but John is proud of the fact that he was never knocked out in a championship and only hit the canvas once! He did win the title of Best Boxer in one tournament, though.
Boxing did improve his physical fitness and ability to look after himself, and, more importantly, helped enormously with his self-confidence because during his teens he needed to grow up fast. His father died when he was only fourteen and, being the eldest of five children, he had to help his mother and work in the family butcher’s shop. He continued his training when he went to college in Dublin for a year but his boxing career came to an end at the age of twenty-five when he had his appendix removed. By the time he had recovered from the surgery, the boxing club was on summer break so John joined the newly formed Shotokan karate club in the town and never boxed again. From then on martial arts were to become the cornerstone of his life.
In 1987 the Westport Kyokushin karate club was founded – the first Irish Karate Kyokushinkai
(IKK) club outside of the capital – and John was quick to join. He had made contact with (now) Shihan Kevin Callan of the IKK Dublin branch, who came down with some of the other members to help with training. John was delighted to be able to train in full-contact karate at last and, at the end of the first year, got his second kyu, later going on to become one of the first Kyokushin karate black belts outside Dublin along with his friends James O’Malley and Ger Dawson. Local interest in karate was growing and John and his two friends were not only training hard but teaching big groups of youngsters as well. In 1992 John set up dojos in Clifden and Letterfrack (County Galway), and he, James and Ger were also running successful summer camps in the Westport area and Connemara.
Brawn ran the family business until he was thirty, but after fifteen years he decided it was time to break out on his own. To earn a living he began to work on the doors of local pubs and clubs. He was getting more and more offers of door work and this led to him setting up his own security company – JB Security. He was regularly covering at least three nightclubs and seven pubs as well as festivals and race meetings. A year after getting his black belt, John became an instructor with the Association and Register of Self Protection Instructors and, besides teaching IKK, started training as well as employing doormen. In those years there was no formal training of any kind for the doors so he started his own programme and began giving courses on door security.
After reading Geoff Thompson’s book, Watch My Back, John realized that he had found the next step forward to develop his skills for working in the security industry. He travelled to England and over the course of a few years trained with Geoff Thompson and Peter Consterdine, joining the British Combat Association and even bringing Geoff and Peter over to Ireland to train the guys he was working with. John also studied close-quarter combat techniques with Marcus Wynne and Dennis Martin, which he says was a life-changing experiencing for him: “In one day I learned more than I had in over twenty years of traditional martial arts. He was using NLP (Neuro Linguistic Programming) to instil the techniques and I came away with a high level of skill. It was fantastic. There was a lot of edged weapons training and we were starting to come up against this more and more on the door so the relevancy was very high.”
The Mammoth Book of Hard Bastards (Mammoth Books) Page 12
