by Wilson, Jim
Can I just jump back slightly, Robert? The Danny guy – what do you know about his background?
What I know is Danny has, over a period, brought drugs into the country for this crowd.
For who?
For Jamie and Gallagher and they actually financed the purchase of the lorry.
The lorry that was used?
The Scania.
This being the same lorry that Danny was threatened in?
Yes.
So they financed that. How do you know that?
Danny told me.
What did he say?
Well, he’d actually gone bankrupt. He’d been in business and went bust and part of the deal was that he would bring some stuff in for them. They bought him . . . they actually had two lorries and bought him the two lorries and set him back up in business. It’s an amalgamation of different transport companies operating under an operator’s licence of a Dutch company, hence the Dutch registration.
So what you’re saying is that Danny’s brought drugs in for Jamie and Frank Gallagher and that it was Danny that told you that?
Yeah.
Was there ever any quantities involved?
He never mentioned any quantities but he said there were fantastic amounts of money for doing it and he also said he transported drugs from Spain up to Holland.
Did he ever mention what type of drugs?
No.
When you say fantastic amounts of money, did he ever actually give you a figure?
He was talking hundreds of thousands.
So Danny volunteered this information to you?
Yes, ’cos I went along on a couple of runs with him and he had told me. He also had another driver. He was sitting down in Valencia one time waiting to bring some stuff up and he kept him waiting there for a fortnight just so he could bring some drugs up from Spain to Holland for him. I’ve heard talking on the phone a couple of times and he said just hang out there for a few more days. Book yourself into a hotel or whatever and it will come up shortly.
Who do you think Danny was waiting instruction from?
I would say Jamie.
Did he tell you at any time he was waiting instruction from Jamie?
No. He said he was waiting on a load but no one waits in Spain for a legitimate load. I mean, there’s a big shortage of transport all around the continent and back and forth. You don’t wait two weeks for anybody.
OK. Let’s get back to yourself. You made a few genuine runs then the incident with Danny. What happened then?
I spoke to Danny that day – the day in the truck stop in Carlisle – and he said to me, ‘Just let it go for a couple of weeks and I’ll give you work over in the continent so you can bring stuff up from Spain to Holland for me. I do it all the time.’
You’re talking about stuff there. You are talking about drugs?
Drugs, yes. We call it stuff, kit or gear.
Carry on, Robert.
That’s the last I heard from Danny until I was working for the local firm in Girvan. He just rang me out of the blue and asked me if I could do a run that Saturday night for him.
Who rang you out of the blue?
Danny. He rang me on my mobile. He wanted me to do a fish run that Saturday night. It was a legitimate run.
What date?
Probably April or May 2003. I said no, I’m working and I’m away for two weeks. The way it worked, you go out for three weeks for them or six weeks and then take a fortnight off or something. They give you the time off when you’re with the lorry. You get parked up for thirty-six hours or forty-eight hours or something but you’re never back up in Scotland. It’s always down in England and I said, ‘Look, I’m here until they bring me back.’ They had asked me to work full-time with them which I’m sorry I didn’t do ’cos I would never have got involved in this. But that’s water under the bridge.
So he’s asked you to do one run and you’ve said no?
Yes. That was the last time I heard from Danny.
OK. What was your next communication with these individuals?
Right. Kelly’s had rang me and I did a few legitimate runs for Kelly’s. The way it worked with Kelly’s was I went out every Saturday night, they sent the lorry over on the ferry from Belfast. I picked it up from Stranraer, drove on down to Dover, crossed over at Dover, up into Breskens in Holland, which is just at the Dutch/Belgian border, just over the border, dumped the fish off there and that was generally me finished until Monday. I’d collect flowers and fruit for Kelly’s from three different pick-up points in Holland.
All bona fide stuff?
Yes, all bona fide stuff.
OK. What happened then?
There was one run . . . I was contacted by my friend in Ireland. He said would you be interested in bringing some of that stuff back. He gave me the details of where to meet and he said Frank or J would be in touch with me and on to Holland. He seemed to know where it was the whole time. When I got closer to Rijnsburg, they rang to see sort of what time I’d be.
Sorry to interrupt you – who rang you?
It was J. Mostly it was J who called me.
Can you tell us roughly what date that was?
First week in May 2003.
So we get this correct, your friend, who you don’t want to name, phones you and tells you he wants you to bring some stuff back?
I was doing runs for the weeks before that and he knew I was going out on the Saturday night.
What vehicle were you in then?
In the DAF – Kelly’s DAF. Can’t think of the registration number. It was a DAF. It’s the only DAF that Kelly’s have.
So you don’t know the registration?
If I could get back to my tachos sometime, I could dig the number out. It wouldn’t be hard to find the number. It’s the only DAF Kelly’s have.
So your friend – what details did he give you?
He just told me to carry on with the run and I’d be contacted when I was in Holland. They had a rough idea what times I’d be ’cos he had worked for Kelly’s before.
So you were doing a bona fide run at that time?
Yes. I dropped the fish in Breskens. I had some more to drop off but, Jesus Christ, I can’t remember the names of these places in Holland. I had another drop-off to do and I went over to Rijnsburg and that’s when they put the stuff on before I started loading the fruit.
Who told you to go to Rijnsburg?
My mate from Ireland.
And were you communicated by people when you were over there?
Yes.
What phone did they phone you on?
They phoned me on the Siemens A55.
Always?
Yes. That was the number I had at the time that had the chip in it.
So who phoned you?
J.
Where was he phoning you from?
Scotland.
You sure about that?
Nearly sure – I couldn’t say 100 per cent.
So the number he phoned you on will be on your phone somewhere possibly?
If the chip . . . the telephone has a memory. I’ve changed the chip since. Actually changed the chip on the way home that time.
You changed the SIM card so, unless it’s on the memory, it’s gone?
Yes.
So what did he say to you on the phone?
He just said what time will you be at Rijnsburg at? I told him the time and it was the Sunday. I wasn’t starting to load the fruit until Monday. So I went up and sat on the road from the garage, filled up with fuel. And the guy pulled up in a Golf GTi with Dutch plates on.
Where exactly were you sitting?
I was sitting on the main road into the village of Rijnsburg.
Who directed you to that position?
Right, I knew where it was. I knew what the position was ’cos it had been explained to me before and it was close to where Kelly’s Flowers is in Rijnsburg.
How far from Kelly’s is it?
Quarter of a mile.
So it’s actually a road. You sat on the road?
Yes, a main road.
What I’m trying to get to is who told you to go to that specific location?
J.
He phoned you and told you to go there?
Well, he phoned and said, ‘Do you know exactly where you’re going?’ I said, ‘Yes in Rijnsburg.’
Did he tell you what time to be there at?
I told him what time I’d be there at and he said just park there and there will be someone along in a few minutes of you arriving, which there was.
What time was that at? Was it night?
No. It was a Sunday afternoon.
So you park up. J told you there would be someone there in a few minutes?
Yes.
What happens?
A Golf GTi, black with Dutch plates, pulled in and a coloured guy – I’ve actually remembered his name, the nickname. It was Tony the Moroccan – that’s what his name was. He handed the five boxes into me and I kept them in the cab of the DAF.
In the cab?
Yeah.
How long did this exchange take? Minutes?
Seconds.
So did you look in the boxes?
No.
And he just drove away?
He just drove away.
Can you give us an age for him?
Mid to late twenties.
What happened?
I loaded the fruit not far from Rijnsburg, maybe twenty minutes or so. Started loading the fruit there and I loaded some more on the way down the road and then went down to Belgium and loaded the lorry more.
It’s fair to say the rest of your load was bona fide?
Yes. It was all fruits and loaded right to the top. I had intended to put the boxes in among the load but I’d that much fruit, I kept them in the cab.
How many boxes?
Five.
How would you describe the boxes?
About three-foot, taped-up cardboard boxes with parcel tape.
What colour of tape?
Brown.
Were they heavy?
Reasonably heavy, yeah.
So then what happened?
I load the fruit, head down for the train [the Eurotunnel freight service] at Calais.
Did you receive any other communication?
He rang me a few times en route to see that everything was OK.
When you were coming back?
Yeah. I was on the way down from Holland down into Belgium.
After you collected the boxes?
Yeah.
Who phoned you?
J.
What did he ask you?
Just asked if everything was OK.
This J on the phone is the same J that you met face-to-face?
Yeah.
Definitely the same J?
Yeah.
So he phoned you a few times?
Yeah. I went down for the train and I was waved through the X-ray machine to check for immigrants and things like that. Drove on in and I was coming down towards the British Customs. The lassie said to go over to the tent on the right-hand side which I thought was Customs but it turned out was Immigration. They closed the doors behind me and put sensors on the lorry and the sensors showed a pulse so they opened the lorry and the guy said there was no way anybody’s in there, it’s full to the roof with fruit. So they closed it up and one of the other guys checked the cab but he was more interested in the fact that I was from Ireland ’cos he had been stationed there when he was in the army. He was more interested in talking about Ireland than checking the thing. I can say I was quite relieved.
You must have been a worried man?
I was. I was touching cloth.
What was the date of that?
That was the first weekend in May of 2003.
What happened after you got clear of your wee scare?
I got on the train and got off and drove up towards Dumfries which would have run me into late on Monday night.
What happened?
I’d been in touch with Frank Gallagher.
You’d been in touch with him?
Yeah. He’d been in touch with me, sorry. He rang me, asked me what time I’d be round about Dumfries and he arranged to meet me at the Shell services just at the Dumfries roundabout there. But when I got there, there were three lorries parked so we couldn’t change anything over . . . So I followed him. He was driving a black Audi at the time and every lay-by we came to someone was parked in it. So we were two or three miles up the road and I pulled into a lay-by, left enough space for him to drive the car up the inside of the lorry and I just handed the boxes from the lorry to him. He threw them into the car and disappeared.
Did he say anything?
He said, ‘You OK?’
That was it?
That was it. That was the last time I heard for six weeks. I just carried on working for Kelly’s. Obviously I got paid, arranged by my mate in Ireland to collect the money for me.
What money was that?
£20,000.
You got paid £20,000 for that run? That one run for those boxes?
Yeah.
How did you come into possession of that money?
I went to Ireland and collected it.
Was it cash?
It was cash.
What did you do with the money?
Paid quite a few bills of the hotel and sort of got myself out of debt. Made the hotel reasonably presentable for selling.
What was the name of the hotel again?
Queen’s Hotel, Colmonell.
Where did that £20,000 come from?
It came from J and Frank Gallagher.
How do you know that?
’Cos my mate told me it came from him. He went and collected it from him.
Did you know where he went to collect it?
Glasgow.
Were you with him?
No.
So that’s done and dusted now, long gone. What happened then?
I just carried on working for Kelly’s for the next few weeks. I took two weeks off ’cos we had sold the hotel and I got a wee flat in Ballantrae and I wasn’t due to start back with Kelly’s until Saturday 28 June. But on the Monday I received a call from Kelly’s. I never done a midweek run for Kelly’s before. On the Monday I received a call from Kelly’s asking me if I could take some prawns to Le Havre in France on the Tuesday. He said, if I got myself down to Stranraer for the 5.15 ferry on Tuesday morning, I would go across with Ken, the transport manager. So I agreed to do that and, while I was away, my mate from Ireland rang me and asked me to do the run for Kelly’s first thing on Tuesday and he said would I be interested in bringing some drugs back – ‘Would you be interested in bringing some stuff back?’
For him?
For the boys in Glasgow.
Did he mention the boys in Glasgow?
Aye.
What names?
J and Frank.
So he’s acting as a sort of . . .
Go-between.
Was this guy [Ken] Munro still with you at this stage?
No.
So you then travelled abroad with these prawns?
Yeah. I drove down to Newhaven in Sussex and got the 5.15 ferry over to Dieppe from Newhaven.
Was there any reason for you going to Newhaven?
It was just where Kelly’s told me to go.
When did you get this phone call from your friend?
On the Monday.
What day is this we’re talking about now?
Wednesday, late Tuesday evening, arrived in Dieppe on Wednesday night. I rang Kelly’s. They told me to go up to Rijnsburg to load flowers. So I drove up more or less non-stop, apart from a break for tea and statutory breaks and things like that. More or less just drove straight . . . well I did stop, not too far from Rijnsburg and collected five trolleys there. That’s where my problems really started ’cos four trolleys fit across the fridge together, the fifth trolley was rolling about.
I tried to secure the trolley and J rang me to see what was keeping me. I said I would be at Rijnsburg about 10 o’clock or so. And it was midnight and I was still trying to get the load secure. I said, ‘Look, I really think you should cancel this load.’ He said, ‘The guy is sitting there waiting for you. It has to come.’
So why did you want to cancel it?
’Cos everything was going wrong. I had an awful bad feeling about it, which turned out to be correct. This was Thursday 26 June.
Did he put any pressure on you to go through with it?
He said you’re going to cause a hell of a lot of trouble for me, which means a hell of a lot of trouble for yourself, if you don’t go ahead with it.
Do you remember what time that call came into your phone?
Midnight.
What phone?
The Siemens. I managed to tie the loose trolley, just to get me over to Rijnsburg and I parked on the road into Rijnsburg.
Same place as before?
Yes. Same place and the guy pulled up. This time in a black Mercedes.
The same person?
The same person. Dutch plates again. And he handed me the two boxes which I kept in the cab with me overnight. I had to go and park at Kelly’s place in Rijnsburg and wait for the guy to load me out with flowers so he loaded me out and I went to collect more trolleys to load me out completely. I loaded them. I was late for the ferry. I had to get the ferry from the Hook into Harwich and by the time I got the load, it was about ten to seven. I was starting to panic as I had these two boxes. I was driving the wee Mann lorry with these two boxes sitting conspicuously in the cab.
What lorry was that you were in?
The Mann, the one I was arrested in.
You were not happy with the boxes?
No. I wanted to put them into the load so, after I loaded, I went round to the fruit market and parked there. I put two boxes in amongst the flowers. I got to the ferry about twenty past seven and it was still standing there. I got off at Harwich about half ten.
So was there any communication after you took possession of the boxes?
Not until I got to England.
What was it?
When I got off the ferry, I was last off and Customs and Excise were standing checking some other lorries. They had the big X-ray machine as well. But they just ignored me completely and waved me on. On the ferry, I destroyed the SIM card of my phone.
Why did you do that?
