Q: You said you could see what was happening. What was happening?
A: The people just got them outside. The next thing I remember was that Sergeant BRIGHT told BEAN that he couldn’t kill any kids.
Q: Did you know what prompted this statement on the part of Sergeant BRIGHT?
A: I can’t remember what it was.
Q: What did Sergeant BRIGHT say?
A: He just told BEAN that he couldn’t kill any kids.
Q: Did Sergeant BRIGHT say anything else?
A: No, sir.
Q: Was anything else said at that time?
A: That’s when BEAN said there was an order, sir.
Q: What was it that BEAN said at that time?
A: I believe that he said that “Bravo 6” had given the order that all people in the village were to be killed, that the village was to be burned down.
Q: Did he say this to Sergeant BRIGHT’s face?
A: He had come back. He was standing on the smaller path leading to the hooch, sir. Sergeant BRIGHT was somewhere on the main trail.
Q: Can you tell us exactly where this statement by Sergeant Bright and the response by BEAN was made, as best as you can remember?
A: Sergeant BRIGHT was on the main trail.
Q: Where was BEAN?
A: I believe BEAN was standing on the smaller trail leading to the hooch.
Q: What happened next?
A: The next thing I remember was that BEAN was leading the woman into this – he took her and led her into this little field there.
Q: What do you mean when you say that he was leading her?
A: I believe he was taking her away from the group, that he grabbed her by the arm or something.
Q: Did you see BEAN take this woman away from the group?
A: Yes, sir, I was looking at the thing as a whole, I wasn’t paying that much attention to particulars. I know he got her away from the group, that is all I know.
Q: Your attention wasn’t focused particularly on the woman and BEAN at that time, is that right?
A: When they went away from the group, no, sir, I guess not.
Q: Who was in this group?
A: Those Vietnamese women and children, I guess, sir.
Q: Would you describe as best as you can the age and sex of these people?
A: The woman was about maybe 30, maybe 25, maybe 35.
Q: Was this woman the one that BEAN led away?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What about the other people?
A: There was some older girls there, and some rather small ones.
Q: What would you say was the age bracket of these people?
A: I couldn’t be sure, sir. The smallest one was maybe three.
Q: And how many people were there in the group?
A: I’d say close to eight or nine, sir.
Q: What Marines were around the area of the children and the women.
A: I don’t remember, sir.
Q: Were there Marines around?
A: Yes, I believe there were a couple of Marines there. Once they had the people outside the hooch, they set fire to it.
Q: How did you distinguish Lieutenant BEAN from any other person in there?
A: Well, I knew it was.
Q: Was there anyone else around when Sergeant BRIGHT and BEAN had the conversation about the kids?
A: I don’t remember, sir.
Q: Were there other people there, Marines?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Do you remember who any of those other people were?
A: The whole patrol was bunched up.
Q: Where, if any place, did BEAN take this woman?
A: He took her into the middle of this small field, sir.
Q: Up to this point, did you see any hostile movement by this woman?
A: No, sir, I didn’t.
Q: At this point, did you see any hostile movement on the part of the women, or children?
A: No, sir.
Q: What happened with Lieutenant BEAN?
A: He just took the woman into the middle of the field and shot her, sir.
Q: Approximately, if you remember, how many times did he shoot her?
A: I’d say three to six times.
Q: Was it automatic fire?
A: Semi-automatic.
Q: Was there any obstruction by the way of trees, bushes, or otherwise between your position and Lieutenant BEAN?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you see anyone else around that area?
A: I suppose I saw them, sir.
Q: What do you think you saw?
A: I guess a group of Vietnamese people.
Q: Did you see two Marines any place?
A: I believe there were a couple of Marines on the trail, the small trail leading to the hooch.
Q: Where were these Marines in relation to the point where the woman was taken from the group and taken to the field?
A: They would have been directly behind Lieutenant BEAN.
Q: Taking these two cups, and this can, I want you to position the woman, BEAN, and yourself, so we can see what your observation point of view was.
A: Yes, sir.
GC: Let the record reflect that the witness has taken the two cups and the can and placed them in approximately a 120 degree angle.
Q: Would you describe in as much detail as you can remember, how BEAN shot this woman?
A: I believe BEAN shoved the woman in front of him and had his rifle in one hand and was pushing the woman in front of him with the other. When they got to this spot where he shot her, I believe she started to turn around, sir. She moved her body like this (motioning to the right) and he shot her.
Q: When she turned around like that, did you see BEAN’s hand on her?
A: Yes, sir, I believe he still had his hand on the back of her.
Q: What happened when – let me ask you this. Did you hear any shots fired?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did you see the shots fired?
A: The muzzle flash.
Q: Did you see the muzzle flash or any other indication?
A: I suppose I did, sir.
Q: What did the woman do?
A: She just dropped.
Q: Did she just drop straight down, or did she fall forward, or what?
A: Sort of forward, I guess.
Q: When she fell forward, did she put her arms out, or did she just go down?
A: I think she put her arms out, sir.
Q: Approximately how far would you say the muzzle was from this woman?
A: I’d say no more than one or two feet, sir.
Q: Did you think it was point blank-range?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Did these shots continue as the woman fell?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What kind of weapon was Lieutenant BEAN using?
A: It was an M-16.
Q: Are you sure of that?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: How was Lieutenant BEAN dressed at that time?
A: I suppose like everybody else.
Q: Do you remember what he had on?
A: If I told you, I would be assuming what he had on, sir.
Q: Did he have a helmet on?
A: I believe he did, sir.
Q: Did you see him with a helmet on?
A: I believe I did, sir.
Q: Did you see him with a helmet on?
A: I don’t remember.
Q: Do you know whether or not he had a flak jacket?
A: I just assume he did.
Q: Did you have your flak jacket on?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Was there anything unusual about his appearance?
A: Not that I can recall, sir.
Q: Did you recognize the face of the individual that shot the woman as being the face of Lieutenant BEAN, the man here today?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: After the shots were fired, did you see any movement from the area of the woman?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you go over
and examine the woman?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you know whether anyone examined the woman?
A: No, sir, I don’t think anyone did, sir.
Q: What did BEAN do?
A: I guess he just walked away, sir.
Q: Did you see him walk away?
A: Again, I suppose I did, but I don’t recall.
Q: How would you describe the movement of this woman, or the action that took place on the part of this woman immediately before she was shot? Did she jerk around?
A: I don’t believe so, sir, I just remember that she started to turn, I believe to her right side sort of like this (motioning to the right).
Q: Could you tell whether or not BEAN turned the woman with his hand?
A: No, sir, I couldn’t tell.
Q: What next attracted your attention, what did you do next?
A: The next thing I remember is we were back on the trail, I believe we were going to move out, and somebody said – well, we could see the group of Vietnamese back by the hooch that was still burning. Somebody said that there were some women in there. I went back to check it out, as there might be some more children, then we returned to the patrol. Somebody burned something. The first time we came in there, I heard the remark that the kids didn’t cry when their mother got killed, but they do when they burn such-and-such. I don’t know what the item was, sir.
Q: Do you remember who said that?
A: No, sir, I don’t.
Q: Do you know who was in the vicinity that might have said that?
A: No, sir.
Q: Where did your patrol go from this hooch?
A: I guess we just returned to the LZ, sir.
Q: Did you follow BEAN’s actions after he left the woman back at the area of the hooch?
A: No, sir.
Q: Do you know what BEAN did after he left the woman?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did he come to your group and make any remarks?
A: He came up to our group and asked me for a cigarette.
Q: Did he say anything else to you or your group at that time?
A: Not that I recall, sir.
Q: What was your position in your squad when you returned to the LZ?
A: I don’t know, sir.
Q: As you went back to the camp did you see or hear BEAN make any remarks at that time?
A: I remember that I was talking to, I believe it was HILL and LUCIANO about what had happened. BEAN came up later and said something about if I had seen or said something about being tight with ADAMSEN, and that if I had seen a lot of my buddies blown away like he had that I would feel the same way about the Vietnamese. That was about all.
Q: You heard BEAN say this?
A: Yes, sir, he was talking to me, sir.
Q: Would you give your impression as nearly as you can remember of what he told you?
A: It was if I had seen more people, more of my friends killed, that I would feel the same way about the Vietnamese people.
Q: Same as whom?
A: I imagine the same as everybody else, sir.
Q: Did he say anything else in this particular conversation besides that?
A: He said that he and ADAMSEN were tight or something like that.
Q: Was ADAMSEN the man that was killed?
A: Yes, sir, Lieutenant BRIGHT’s radio man.
Q: Was there anything else said that evening that you remember about what happened on that patrol?
A: No, sir.
Q: Did you hear anything about what happened on the other patrol?
A: Not that night, sir.
Q: When was the first time that you heard about it?
A: I heard about it from Lance Corporal STRONG, sir. It was after we had gotten back to the battalion area.
Q: And what did Lance Corporal STRONG have to say?
A: He said that – we were discussing whether or not it was the right thing to do, to go through the ville like that and kill the civilians without knowing for sure that they were Viet Cong.
Q: Knowing for sure, or not knowing for sure?
A: Not knowing for sure.
Q: Please continue.
A: It got around to where we discussed what happened. I believe I asked him if there were any women and children killed, or any children in particular, in the patrol he was on, and he said that there were. He said they shot at a woman with a baby in her arms.
Q: Did he relate at that time any other things that happened on the other patrol?
A: He just said that he was security and was glad that he – he was a machine gunner also, sir – he said he was glad that he didn’t have anything to do with the actual shooting.
Q: Can you remember anything else that he told you?
A: Not really, sir.
Q: Did you have any conversation with anyone else in your platoon or the company?
A: Yes, sir, after I talked to the chaplain, he talked to the Major.
Q: Who talked to the Major?
A: The chaplain, sir. Captain GRAINGER sent Sergeant HAINES over to get me, and he asked me why the Major wanted to see me. He told me it was the right thing to go back out that night because there were signs of enemy trying to sneak up on the perimeter. He also told me that when I went to talk to the Major, to not colour anything up or anything, and after this –
Q: Wait a minute. Was anything said about the chain of command?
A: Pardon me?
Q: Were you told at that time not to violate the chain of command?
A: At first they thought that I had gone directly to the Major, sir.
Q: Please answer the question. Was anything said about the chain of command?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: What?
A: I can’t remember exactly, but I think when they first came up there, when Sergeant HAINES first brought me to see the Captain, the Captain said something like, What’s this you’ve been talking to the Major, or something like that, and I told him that I hadn’t talked to the Major, which I hadn’t at that time, but I had talked to the chaplain.
Q: Before I interrupted you, you started to tell us about some of the conversation. Will you please tell us about that?
A: I got back where the machine guns were set up, LUCIANO and I –
Q: Where is this now?
A: We were set up along the road, sir. I had been dismissed and had went back to where we were set up. I had been there for maybe, I don’t know how long it was, but then Lieutenant BAIRD came up and told me to do what I thought was right, and I just explained to him that I had gone to see the chaplain.
Q: What did you tell Lieutenant BAIRD?
A: In reference to my going to see the chaplain?
Q: Yes.
A: I can’t remember, sir, I just said something about I can’t see fighting that we don’t know – I didn’t understand that the situation should have been handled in that way. He couldn’t either, and he said that he was a fine Christian man, or something like that.
Q: What did he say?
A: He said he was a Christian man.
Q: You are speaking now of Lieutenant BAIRD?
A: Yes, sir.
Q: Anything else?
A: He said that Sergeant BRIGHT was a fine man with a wife back in the States, but the other night he just took a man out and shot him.
Q: When was this conversation?
A: About two days or so after the operation.
Q: Do you remember any other parts of that conversation?
A: No, sir, that’s about all he said. He said to do what I thought was right.
Q: I want you to back up and tell us as best you can remember, what you said, what the Lieutenant said, and how the conversation ran, would you do that for us, please?
A: He said, I want to talk to you, or something like that.
Q: Did he come up to you?
A: Yes, sir, he came over to our position.
Q: Who else was there at the time?
A: LUCIANO was, sir.
; Q: Please continue.
A: We walked away from where LUCIANO was. He just came over and said, I guess I know how you feel, or something like this.
Q: Do you know any reason why he should come over and single you out?
A: Well, sir, he had been present when Captain GRAINGER was speaking to me, sir.
Q. Please continue.
A. I guess he just wanted me to know that I wasn’t alone in the way I felt about what had happened. That’s all I can tell you, sir.
Q. Please continue with the conversation you were having.
A. I just remember stating that I thought it wasn’t right or something and he said, Neither can I. I can’t see it either, or something like that. Then he said, I’m a Christian, he said, Now, Sergeant BRIGHT is a fine man. He’s got a wife back in the States, but the other night he just took a man out and shot him. He said – I don’t know if he said this in this conversation or in another conversation – but he said, If anybody thinks you’re lying, I’ll back you up.
Q: Do you know whether or not LUCIANO heard this conversation?
A: No, sir, he didn’t.
Q: Did you have any other conversations?
A: Not that I recall, sir.
Q: How soon after you came back to the battalion area did you report this or did you talk to the chaplain?
A: I talked to the chaplain the day before the county fair.
Q: And when was the county fair in relation to the 22nd of October?
A: A couple of days after. I remember it was a couple of days. The county fair must have been about five or six days later, because I know that it was immediately after Operation Liberty II.
Q: Did you hear BEAN say anything else about what happened?
A: No, sir, I didn’t.
Q: Did he say anything about the investigation or the rap, or the charges?
A: Nothing very important, sir. I remember talking to him a couple of times afterwards, this was after they had started the investigation back at the battalion.
Q: Do you remember anything he said?
A: I remember him telling me that he hadn’t killed anybody. Later, after this investigation, I saw him go into this Vietnamese laundry and he told me that he heard that I was going back to Bravo company and I said, Right, and he said, If you have anything to do with it, I’m going to jail.
Q: Could you emphasize that any more?
A: That was about all I talked to him about, sir.
Q: Can you think of anything else to add that might be helpful to us, or are you aware of any other facts that happened on the night or early morning of 22 October?
A: I can remember that when we first went out on patrol I could hear some shots, some screams, and then some more shots, from the other patrol, I imagine.
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