by Studs Terkel
You can’t laugh at a gun. I had a gun put to my head in a bar, over the Pueblo incident. A cop. I got a load on and argue with these guys about shit in Vietnam. I said, “Saigon’s got a million-dollar police station and my brother’s got a station a hundred years old. Where’s the money come from? The cops and firemen are paying taxes and they’re not fixin’ up their stations.” This guy, Jim, who’s a city cop for twenty-four years, is everything you want a cop to be. When I was eighteen he was thirty-eight, he was a supercop. But the hate just fucked him up, and the war.
I was in the bar and Jim had his load on, too. He’s got personal problems, he’s married twice, divorced. He said, “We should invade Korea, bomb it.” I said, “You’re ready to drop a bomb on a country with civilians.” He said, “Ah, you fuckin’ commie.” So I turn my back. I feel this thing on my temple, he had a gun to my head. Two guys next to me dived for the ground. With my left hand I came towards his fuckin’ left wrist. The gun went to the ground and I grabbed him in a headlock. Three other cops in civilian clothes broke it up. You gotta watch that gun.
I coulda been like Jim or Vince. I started seein’ the problems of people. Ten people in an apartment and there’s no place to go except sit out on the street drinkin’ beer. I guess I got this feeling from my father.
My father’s a great man. I see what he went through and the shit and hard times. I don’t see how he lived through it. I used to lay awake when I was drinkin’ and listen to him talk all right. And I used to cry. He talked about the shittin’ war, all the money goin’ for war. And the workers’ sons are the ones that fight these wars, right? And people that got nothin’ to eat...I tell ya, if I didn’t have an income comin’ in...These kids hangin’ around here, Irish kids, Italian kids, twenty-five years old, alcoholics, winos. One guy died of exposure. He went out with my kid sister and he’s dead now.
I was in a four-man detail in Harlem for about six months, just before my transfer to Canarsie. It’s four thirty-story buildings, and the people’d be movin’ in there. Every day I have a list of names of people that are movin’ in. One black family came with eight kids. They had seven rooms on the twentieth floor. The mother, this big, fat woman, asked could I show her the apartment. The kids just wanted to see it. Beautiful painting, real clean. The kids started crying, little kids. I could cry when I think of it. They ran into the bedrooms and they laid on the floor. They said, “This is mine! this is mine!” The kids said, “Look at the bedroom, it’s clean.” These little black kids with sneakers and holes in their pants, crying. It was empty, but they wouldn’t leave that room. The woman asked me could they stay over night. Their furniture was gettin’ delivered the next day. You get people a job or decent housing, you won’t have no trouble.
What led me to be a cop? I’m not that smart to be a lawyer. I failed in Spanish. I’m lucky I can talk English. A good day in school for me was when the teacher didn’t call on me. I used to sit in the back of the room and slide down into the seat so she didn’t call on me.
When I got pimples on my face, that made it worse. I was shy with girls. One thing I told my father, “I’m gonna kill myself, I got pimples.” He said—I’ll never forget it—“The world’s bigger than the pimples on your face.” At that time I didn’t think it was. I used to pile Noxzema on my face and I was with a girl makin’ out and she’d say, “I smell Noxzema.” It used to be in my hair, up my nose...
I liked mathematics. I could add like a bastard. I started gettin’ to algebra, but then I got lost. I didn’t want to raise my hand because I had this skin problem. It’s crazy, right? I sunk down and the teacher never called on me for two years.
The more arrests you make, they got the assumption you’re a better cop, which is not right. They put pressure on me to make arrests. You gotta get out and you gotta shanghai people because you got the sergeant on your back. It comes down to either you or the next guy. You got a family and you got everybody fuckin’ everybody... It’s crazy, know what I mean?”
The project I worked in in East Harlem, you grab a kid doin’ wrong. “Come here, you fuck.” That’s it. He don’t argue. But the middle-income, the kid’ll lie to you. He won’t tell you his right name. His name is a fireman or a cop. He tells his son, “Don’t fuckin’ give any information.” They know the law better.
Like the last project I was on, white middle-income. They were all kids with long hair, right? This cop, he’d be seein’ me talkin’ to the kids, playing guitars. I’d be talkin’ about records. He’d call me, “Hey, what’re ya talkin’ to those fags?” I’d say, “They’re all right.” One of the kids with long hair, his father’s a cop. He said, “Aw fuck that, they’re all commies.”
A couple of times the kids burned me. I saw five kids smokin’ pot. They’re passin’ around the pipe. I grabbed them and threw the shit on the ground. I didn’t want to arrest them. I let ’em all go. The next day one of the kids told this cop. “That Tommy’s a good cop, he let us go.” It got back to the sergeant and he says, “You’re gonna be hung.” So a few times I got charges brought up on me.
I didn’t want to be a cop. Money comes into it. I was twenty-six and I worked in the post office and I wasn’t making’ money, $2.18 an hour. I was young and I wanted to go out with the girls, and I wanted to go down to the Jersey shore. I wanted to buy a car, I just got out of the army. That’s why I took it.
When I became a cop I thought I was going against my father. Cops are tools of the shittin’ Rockefeller. Cops can’t understand when they built a new office building in Harlem the people in that community want a hospital or a school. Rockefeller built that office building, right? Built by white construction workers. And these people demonstrate. Suppose they built in this neighborhood a state office building and black people built it and black people work in it. The cops go in there and break up the demonstrations and who gets it? The cops. Rockefeller’s a million miles away. Cops are working guys, they don’t understand.
You got cops that are fuckin’ great cops, they’re great people. Your supercops. The man in the front line, the patrolman, they do all the work. The sergeants aren’t in with the people. They’d be doin’ paper work. That’s what got me mad.
I know a lot of cops that even liked people more than me. And some were fucks. You got black cops in the projects who were harder on their own people than a white guy. They think the poor people are holdin’ them back. But a lot of them are supercops. Maybe if it was the other way around, if the whites were down and the blacks were top dog, you’d get better white cops.
Know why I switched to fireman? I liked people, but sometimes I’d feel hate comin’ into me. I hated it, to get me like that. I caught these three guys drinkin’ wine, three young Spanish guys. I said, “Fellas, if you’re gonna drink, do it in some apartment.” ‘Cause they were spillin’ the wine and they’d piss right in front of the house, in the lobby. I came back in a half-hour and they had another bottle out. They were pissin’ around. I’m sayin’ to myself, I’m tryin’ to be nice. I walked over. There was two guys facin’ me and one guy had his back to me. So he says, “What the fuck’s the mick breakin’ our balls for?” He’s callin’ me a mick. He’s changing roles, you know? He’s acting like they say a cop does. So I said, “You fuckin’ spic.” So I took the night stick and I swung it hard to hit him in the head. He ducked and it hit the pillar. He turned white and they all took off. It scared me that I could get this hatred so fast. I was fuckin’ shakin’.
A few times I pulled my gun on guys. One time I went to the roof of this project and there’s this big black guy about six seven on top of the stairs. He had his back to me, I said. “Hey fella, turn around.” He said, “Yeah, wait a minute, man.” His elbows were movin’ around his belt. I was half-way up. I said “Turn around, put your hands up against the wall.” He said, “Yeah, yeah, wait a minute.” It dawned on me he had a gun caught in his belt and he was tryin’ to take it out. I said, “Holy shit.” So I took my gun out and said, “You fucker, I’m
gonna shoot.” He threw his hands against the wall. He had his dick out and he was tryin’ to zip up his fly, and there was a girl standin’ in the corner, which I couldn’t see. So here was a guy gettin’ a hand job and maybe a lot of guys might have killed him. I said, “Holy shit, I coulda killed ya.” He started shaking and my gun in my hand was shaking like a bastard. I said— I musta been cryin’—I said, “Just get the hell outa here, don’t...”
I took the fire department test in ‘68 and got called in ’70. I always wanted to be a fireman. My other brother was a fireman eleven years. He had a fire and the floor gave way, he was tellin’ me the story. He thought it was just a one-floor drop. But the guys grabbed him by the arms. They said, “If you go, we all go.” He couldn’t believe this kind of comradeship. They pulled him out. He went down to get his helmet and it was two floors down. He really woulda got busted up.
I like everybody workin’ together. You chip in for a meal together. One guy goes to the store, one guy cooks, one guy washes the dishes. A common goal. We got a lieutenant there, he says the fire department is the closest thing to socialism there is.
The officer is the first one into the fire. When you get to captain or lieutenant, you get more work not less. That’s why I look up to these guys. We go to a fire, the lieutenant is the first one in. If he leaves, he takes you out. One lieutenant I know got heart trouble. When he takes a beatin’ at a fire he should go down to the hospital and get oxygen or go on sick. He don’t want to go on sick. I used to go into a fire, it was dark and I’d feel a leg and I’d look up and see the lieutenant standing there in the fire and smoke takin’ beatings.
When I was in the army I didn’t respect the officers, because the men did all the work. That goes for the police department, too. Cops get killed. You never see a lieutenant get shot. Ten battalion chiefs got killed in fires in the last ten years in the city. The last three guys in the fire department were lieutenants that got killed. ’Cause they’re the first ones in there. I respect that. I want to respect an officer. I want to see somebody higher up that I can follow.
You go to some firehouses, these fuckin’ guys are supermen. I’m not a superman, I want to live. These guys are not gonna live. Every day orders come down, guys are dyin’, retirement. I don’t think these guys get their pensions too long. I never heard a fireman livin’ to sixty-five.
When you get smoke in your lungs, these guys are spittin’ out this shit for two days. A fireman’s life is nine years shorter than the average workingman because of the beating they take on their lungs and their heart. More hazardous than a coal miner. The guy don’t think nothing’s wrong with him. You don’t think until you get an x-ray and your name’s on it. We got this lieutenant and when he takes a beating he can’t go to a hospital because they’ll find something wrong with him. He was trapped in a room and he jumped out of the second-story window. He broke both his ankles, ran back into the building, and he collapsed.
There’s more firemen get killed than cops, five to one. Yet there’s only one-third of the amount of men on the job. We get the same pay as policemen. These politicians start to put a split between the departments. I’d like to take some of these politicians right into the fuckin’ fire and put their head in the smoke and hold it there. They wouldn’t believe it. They don’t give a shit for the people. Just because they wave the flag they think they’re the greatest.
The first fire I went to was a ship fire. I jumped off the engine, my legs got weak. I nearly fell to the ground, shakin’, right? It was the first and only time I got nerves. But we have to go in there. It’s thrilling and its scary. Like three o’clock in the morning. I was in the ladder company, it’s one of the busiest in the city, like six thousand runs a year. 61 The sky is lit up with an orange. You get back to the firehouse, you’re up there, talkin’, talkin’ about it.
I was in a fire one night, we had all-hands. An all-hands is you got a workin’ fire and you’re the first in there, and the first guy in there is gonna take the worst beatin’. You got the nozzle, the hose, you’re takin’ a beating. If another company comes up behind you, you don’t give up that nozzle. It’s pride. To put out the fire. We go over this with oxygen and tell the guy, “Get out, get oxygen.” They won’t leave. I think guys want to be heroes. You can’t be a hero on Wall Street.
There’s guys with black shit comin’ out of their ears. You got smoke in your hair. You take a shower, you put water on your hair, and you can still smell the smoke. It never leaves you. You’re coughin’ up this black shit. But you go back and you have coffee, maybe a couple of beers, you’re psyched up.
You get a fire at two, three in the morning. The lights go on, you get up. I yelled, “Jesus, whatsa matter?” It dawned on me: Where else could we be goin’? All the lights goin’ on and it’s dark. It’s fuckin’ exciting. Guys are tellin’, “Come on, we go. First Due.” That means you gotta be the first engine company there. You really gotta move. It’s a pride. You gotta show you’re the best. But what they’re fightin’ over is good. What they’re fightin’ over is savin’ lives.
You go in there and it’s dark. All of a sudden smoke’s pourin’ outa the goddamn building. It’s really fast. Everybody’s got their assignments. A guy hooks up a hydrant. A guy on the nozzle, I’m on the nozzle. A guy’s up to back me up. A guy’s puttin’ a Scott Air Pack on. It’s a breathing apparatus. It lasts twenty minutes.
Two weeks ago we pulled up to this housing project. On the eighth floor the flames were leaping out the window. We jumped out, your fuckin’ heart jumps. We ran into the elevator. Four of us, we rolled up the hose, each guy had fifty feet. We got off on the seventh floor, the floor below the fire. We got on the staircase and hook into the standpipe. The guys were screamin’ for water and smoke was backin’ up. You’re supposed to have a wheel to turn on the water and the wheel was missin’! Someone stole it in the project. You get these junkies, they steal brass, anything. They steal the shittin’ life. A guy with a truck company came with a claw tool and the water came shootin’ out.
They started yellin’ for a Scott. It weighs about thirty pounds, got the face mask and cylinder. I couldn’t get the damn thing tight. There’s three straps, I tied one. They need me upstairs. They push you into the room. [Laughs.] This is it. One guy’s layin’ on the floor and I’m crawlin’, feeling along the hose. The second company comes in with Scotts on. One guys got his face piece knocked to the side, so he’s gotta get out because the smoke is gettin’ him. The other guy yells, “Give me the nozzle.” It started whippin’ around, fifty, sixty pounds of pressure. Knocked my helmet off. I grabbed the nozzle. I looked up and saw this orange glow. I start hittin’ it. The damn thing wouldn’t go out. It was a fuckin’ light bulb. [Laughs.] A bulb in the bathroom.
I felt this tremendous heat to my left. I turn around and this whole fuckin’ room was orange, yellow. You can’t see clear through the plastic face piece. You can just see orange and feel the heat. So I open up with this shittin’ nozzle to bank back the smoke. The guys come in and ventilated, knocked out the windows. A seven-room apartment, with six beds and a crib. That’s how many kids were living there. Nobody was hurt, they all got out.
There was a lot of smoke. When you have two minutes left on the Scott, a bell starts ringin’. It means get out, you got no oxygen. The thing I don’t like about it, with the piece on your face, you feel confined. But as I went to more fires, I loved the thing because I know that thing’s life. Ninety percent of the people die from smoke inhalation, not from burns.
You got oxygen, it’s beautiful, but you can’t see. It’s a shitty feeling when you can’t see. Sometimes a Scott’s bad because it gives you a false sense of security. You go into a room where you’re not supposed to be. You’d be walkin’ into a pizzeria oven and you wouldn’t know it. You can’t see, you feel your way with the hose. You straddle the hose as you get out. You gotta talk to yourself. Your mind’s actually talkin’. I’m sayin’ things like: It’s beautiful, I can breathe, the fi
re’s over.
In 1958 there was a fire across the street from where I live. It was about one o’clock in the morning. There’s flames on the second floor. I ran up the stairs and grabbed this little girl. She was burnt on the arm. I ran down the street and yelled to the firemen, “I got a girl here got burnt.” They went right past me. I hated the bastards. Now I understand. You gotta put the fire out. There’s more life up there you gotta save. This girl’s outside...It’s real...
When you’re with the police, it wasn’t real. I heard guys makin’ arrests, they found a gun in the apartment. In the paper they say the guy fought with the guy over the gun. When you know the truth, the story’s bullshit. But in the fire department there’s no bullshit. You gotta get into that fire—to be able to save somebody’s life.
About two years ago a young girl ran to the firehouse. She’s yellin’ that her father had a heart attack. The guy was layin’ in the kitchen, right? He pissed in his pants. That’s a sign of death. The fella was layin’ there with his eyes open. Angie pushes the guy three times in the chest, ’cause you gotta shock his heart. The son was standin’ in the room, just starin’ down. I got down on his mouth. You keep goin’ and goin’ and the guy threw up. You clean out his mouth. I was on a few minutes and then Ed Corrigan jumped on the guy’s mouth. The captain bent down and said, “The guy’s dead. Keep goin’ for the family. We took over for ten minutes, but it was a dead man. The son looked down at me and I looked up. He said, “Man, you tried everything. You tried.” You know what I mean? I was proud of myself. I would get on a stranger, on his mouth. It’s a great feeling.
