by Paul Jordan
‘Say what?’ I asked. Ujwal also started to say that this was ridiculous. The angry man interrupted by calling Ujwal a sisterfucker and telling him to shut the fuck up if he knew what was good for him.
‘Mister,’ he began, ‘am I threatening you?’ He didn’t wait for my answer. ‘You must answer the question, do you have your fucking passport you terrorist cunt?’
‘I’m not sure what you mean,’ I replied, stalling for time to consider my position.
On hearing this, the angry man entered a new level of rage. His face turned from spotted white and brown to bright red. He started to froth at the corners of his mouth and appeared ready to boil over. Then he let out a high-pitched scream.
‘I’M ASKING YOU IF YOU HAVE YOUR PASSPORT YOU FUCKING TERRORIST CUNT! DO YOU HAVE IT OR NOT?’
Ha, interrogation, I thought, is that the best you can do, you ugly old prick? I’ve been interrogated by much better people than you and managed to survive 72 hours, so good luck trying to break me, you old wanker.
‘Sorry, what is it you want?’
3.
INTERROGATION
In 1988, having successfully completed the SAS selection course and the four-week jungle training course, we entered the resistance to interrogation phase. I thought I was prepared for it, but nothing can prepare you for interrogation. We had just arrived back in Perth after the arduous eight-hour flight from North Queensland and were instructed to ‘get on the buses and make sure you have a seat to yourself’.
At around 10.00 pm the buses drove into the barracks at Northam and were ambushed by the Counter Terrorist Squadron. I watched as the driver was roughly manhandled from the bus and thrown to the ground. Two men dressed in black and wearing gas masks ran up the aisle of the bus yelling, ‘Look down!’ and ‘Put your hands on your heads!’ Anyone who was too slow to comply was belted over the head and persuaded into the required position pretty bloody quickly. I was seated up the back of the bus, so it was a few seconds before they got to me and gave my head a solid slapping for good measure.
Moments before the attack we had been sterilising our gear so we couldn’t be identified or linked to certain patrols. Col (a mate of mine from the 1st Battalion) expressed concern about his name written under the epaulettes of his jumper. We agreed that this might be a problem, but then he decided we were all being too serious and commented that they’d probably never find his name. We were expecting this interrogation exercise as the final phase of the patrol course and another test to gain entry to the SAS, so we prepared ourselves as much as we could. This included jamming as much emergency chocolate down our throats as we could take.
The men yelled and screamed in the aisle of the bus. When they told Col to stand up (he was seated in front of me) I thought they were talking to me, so I stood up as well. So Col and I are standing up together, but they only wanted one and it wasn’t me just yet, so they punched me in the head and screamed at me to sit down. I didn’t need to be told twice, and the unexpected punch all but put me back in my seat anyway. Col was dragged off the bus and then they yelled at me to stand up. I didn’t want to make the same mistake again so stayed where I was. This really pissed them off and they grabbed me and forced me to my feet using my hair as a handle. I felt a short jab in my left kidney as additional persuasion to behave. The bus was full of tear gas so I had tears in my eyes, snot ran from my nose and my airway was on fire when they finally dragged my pitiful arse off the bus blindfolded and handcuffed.
They half-marched, half-dragged me, steering me by the scruff of my neck into a building and threw me to the ground. I lay face down with my hands above my head. I thought I was on my own until I heard a guard say, ‘Ah, Col.’ I allowed myself a little laugh, as did a few others. Col hadn’t lasted 10 minutes before they had found his name on his epaulettes. We all copped a solid kick in the guts for laughing.
After about four hours lying face down on the floor, I was hauled to my feet, shoved into a room and forced into a chair. A senior soldier was seated on the other side of the desk. He was very matter of fact and seemed only to want to process me. He asked for my personal details and I gave him the usual name, rank, serial number and date of birth. Okay, that seemed to be acceptable. He then asked for an emergency contact, my next of kin.
‘I can’t answer that question, Sir.’
‘But surely you’d like us to tell a family member where you are?’
‘I can’t answer that question, Sir.’
‘You should feel free to talk to me. I want to do all I can for you and I’d like to tell your mother where you are and that you’re okay. So what’s her name?’
‘I can’t answer that question, Sir.’
‘Okay, suit yourself. You will be issued with clothing, so remove all your clothes and put them in this bag.’
I got out of my gear and stood naked in front of the desk, suddenly struck by how bloody cold it was.
‘Okay, sign here. You are being issued with a shirt and pair of trousers,’ he said as he slid the neatly folded garments across his desk.
‘I cannot do that, Sir.’
‘What can’t you do? Sign this form? Surely your army is the same as mine and all items must be accounted for?’ he asked incredulously.
‘I can’t answer that question, Sir.’
‘You do realise that I can’t let you have these warm clothes if you don’t sign the form?’
‘I can’t answer that question, Sir.’
‘So be it. Guard!’
The guard walked through the door. ‘Yes, Sir?’
‘Take this prisoner away.’
The guard grabbed my elbow and shoved my naked arse outside the room where I was cuffed and a pillowcase forced over my head.
The interrogation continued for three days. Once a day (and at different times to confuse us) we were fed a combination of whitebait, lemon grass and potatoes, all served in boiling hot water. We were marched out in small groups holding onto the shoulders of the person in front. We then had to kneel down and a guard lifted our masks just so we could see what we were eating. We were told that if we looked left or right, the food would be removed. We only had a brief period to eat, so it was a matter of shoving as much food into my mouth as quickly as possible, despite the boiling water. When we were finally released from the interrogation, the roof of my mouth and my tongue were burnt and blistered.
During one interrogation session I just about cracked. It was probably my fourth session and I hadn’t signed anything or divulged any information. But this bastard got to me. As I sat there naked wearing only handcuffs, the interrogator sat alongside me and started to rub my nipples with a pencil describing how I could move to his room and keep his bed warm for him at night. Fuck this, I thought. So I grabbed his camouflage shirt by the scruff and pulled him towards me. I released him and tried to punch him with my handcuffed hands. I managed to connect, but it was a pretty ordinary hit and he would have barely felt it. So I grabbed him again and he started yelling, ‘Lunatic! Lunatic!’ Then the walls of the interrogation room erupted as men raced in and grabbed me in a choke hold until I let go. They dragged my naked, sorry arse outside and rushed me back to the holding area. I was only back there for a few minutes enjoying the euphoria of having won that little tussle; I could still hear that fool yelling ‘Lunatic! Lunatic!’ and I chuckled to myself, enjoying my victory. But the feeling was short-lived and naive. I realised that this was probably the end for me and that the last eight weeks of hell had been for nothing. Then two men grabbed me and dragged me backwards out the door and forced me into the boot of a car. No-one said a word and I was thrown around in the boot for about 10 minutes as the car seemed to drive some distance, but probably only did laps around the camp.
When the car stopped and the boot opened, I could sense the bright lights through the pillowcase over my head. I was dragged from the boot and someone told me that I’d committed a terrible offence punishable by death but, due to the commander’s leniency and his dislik
e for homosexuals, I would only have to walk through the punishment chamber. I sensed that there were a few people around me — maybe six or seven. They put a lasso around my waist and told me to walk. I took very small steps and waited for the kicks and punches to rain down, but only got one kick right in the middle of my back which sent me crashing into a swimming pool. The pool had underwater lights and I could see my pillowcase floating around my head. I tried to surface but struggled to swim while my hands were still cuffed. When I finally managed to break the surface, the wet pillowcase suctioned to my face so I couldn’t take a breath and then someone stood on my head to force me under. I sank back down a few feet and again watched the pillowcase floating around my head. I tried to reach up and pull the pillowcase off my head so I could get a breath, but the lasso around my waste pinioned my elbows to my sides. I grabbed the rope and tried to pull it into the water, but I couldn’t get a proper grip and my tormentors had a good hold of it. I was hurting now and starting to get a little concerned. I hoped the blokes on the side of the pool weren’t having an in-depth discussion and wouldn’t forget that there was some loser at the bottom of the pool. This was getting serious. I thought I was fucked and rapidly ran out of air. My lungs started to heave and pulsate and tried to force me to open my mouth and take a breath of water. I opened my mouth and the water sat there just waiting for me. Just when I thought my lungs would win, I was pulled from the water by the lasso.
As I struggled for air beneath the pillowcase, I was dragged to my feet and forced to run. Again the wet pillowcase clung to my face and limited my air supply, so every 10 paces I just ran out of air and fainted. My escorts flapped the opening of my pillowcase until I came around, and then I ran 10 more paces before collapsing again. My feet ached. I’d been wearing boots almost continuously for the past four weeks so my feet were soft, and running blindly on gravel bloody hurt. I’m glad the interrogators didn’t ask me any further questions at that time. I guess I would have hung on knowing that this was just an exercise, but I was a wreck. I also realised that fighting an interrogator was foolish and I’d probably be lucky if I passed this process.
Six hours later and I was back in the interrogator’s chair. After the swim in the pool I was given a pair of very loose cotton pyjamas bottoms that had no elastic in the waist so I had to hold them up with my handcuffed hands. This interrogator was a woman and introduced herself as Comrade someone or rather. She was very official and barely looked up as the guards pushed me into the room.
‘Lance Corporal Jordan, I’m going to ask you some questions and you will answer them.’
She looked up at me expectantly, but I said nothing.
‘Is that clear?’
‘Jordan, Lance Corporal, 25th of March 19…’
‘Yes, yes, yes,’ she said, cutting me off from giving the reply required under the Geneva Convention. She studied me for a few minutes while I watched her. She was quite a nice-looking woman and I wondered if that was part of this interrogation session.
‘What are you doing with your hands?’ she asked, but didn’t wait for my reply. ‘Put your hands above your head.’
If I did that, my pants would fall down. So I spread my legs and raised my arms above my head. My spread legs secured my pyjamas. ‘Put your feet together,’ she ordered, continuing to study me. Damn. I put my feet together and tried to lock my pyjama bottoms by squeezing my legs together. They fell a little, but still concealed my kit.
‘Jump up and down.’
I should have told her to get fucked, but this was a test, and I was probably on thin ice given my last effort, so I just did it and that was the end of my pyjamas. They went straight to my ankles. So there I am jumping up and down with all the kit bouncing around. I would also say in my defence that it was very cold this particular evening.
‘Stop jumping. Are all Australians built like that?’ Again, she didn’t wait for answer, but shook her head. ‘Right, you were captured at this location. What were you doing there?’
Away we went and I started my usual Geneva Convention reply while periodically being forced to jump up and down with the Comrade watching me. After an hour of this I was marched back to the waiting area and forced to kneel on my board.
My board was my home for the duration of the interrogation phase. It was where I spent my time between sessions. It was about 30 centimetres wide and 150 centimetres long. Under foot I could feel that it was made of two lengths of rough-cut timber nailed to two cross members underneath. I couldn’t see the other guys but knew they were in the room with me and were also kneeling. Prior to my arrival in the holding room, the guard tapped the bell twice which meant we had to kneel.
A few hours later I was abruptly dragged from my board and frogmarched outside. I was keen to get outside as identifying the position of the sun in the sky would help me with direction and the time of day. It had been dark when the Comrade got a look at my kit and now the sun was high in the sky. I was forced to walk quickly over the rough road for about three or four minutes before suddenly being ordered to stop, with the added warning, ‘Don’t move!’
I heard something being shifted; it sounded like a steel lid being opened. Then they grabbed me and pushed me down until I fell into a hole and I heard the steel lid sound again. I was able to spin around and sit in a tight ball, but when I lifted my head, I hit the steel lid. As I raised my eyes, I could see the shadows of my guards looking down at me and the steel grate trapping me in this hole. Then someone called down to me, ‘I want the names of the men in your patrol. You would be well advised to give them to me. When you do, I will let you out. Do you understand me?’
‘Jordan, Lance Corporal … ah fuck,’ I mumbled as a torrent of water smashed into me. I must have been sitting under a hydrant or something, as the pressure was intense. I dropped my head and took the jet in the back of my neck. I concentrated on each breath, as the pillowcase quickly become drenched, making it difficult to breathe. Then I thought of that boiling hot meal I had a few hours ago and how I had wiped my hands on the pillowcase and it occurred to me that this water would wash away those stains. Bizarre, but this was enough to make me laugh. I thought this situation was pretty hilarious, but my laughing stopped when I noticed that the water was getting pretty bloody high now. The top of the water was touching my chin and I thought they’d have to turn it off soon. I looked up at them as my interrogator yelled, ‘Well?’ Give me the names, Jordan!’
I couldn’t be arsed with the spiel, so I said nothing and the water kept coming. Now it was so high that I had to push my mouth up through the grate to get some air. Every part of me was under water except my pillowcase-covered mouth. I could see the silhouette of the interrogator looking down on me. He was probably yelling, but my ears were under water and the noise of the water jet smashing into my forehead ensured that I couldn’t hear a thing. Just as my neck muscles started to protest at the strain, the hydrant was turned off and the water started to subside. The grate was removed and my trusty guards dragged me out so fast I nearly left my pyjama bottoms in the pit.
Eventually, after 72 hours, the same guys who took us hostage rescued us and it was all over. One person had failed this phase, but the rest of us passed and moved onto the next course in the selection process. The best thing about the interrogation process was that it set a new benchmark for doing it tough and, for the rest of my time in the SAS, it would remain an unbeatable benchmark. If I could survive the interrogation phase, I could pretty much do anything.
So now this ugly, old, angry prick is going to have to try harder if he thinks I’m going to play his game. Obviously he doesn’t know that abuse is the easiest form of interrogation to reject. However, the previous stuff with the SAS was training and the reality was that they weren’t going to kill me, although they seemed to want to at the time. But this was real and I needed to get my game head on and get out. I noted the sheepish man to the left of the angry man trying to calm him and wasn’t happy when words like ‘terrorist’ and ‘mot
her fucker’ were used and he certainly didn’t like it when I was called a ‘cunt’.
Again the angry man pushed his recording device in my face and demanded to know if I had my passport on me. I turned my head and ignored him. He yelled something in Hindi and told me I’d committed a terrible criminal offence, and then they left the room to discuss the matter.
‘Ujjwal, hide all your money,’ I said as I fumbled through my pack to hide my passport and money.
‘Paul, maybe we should run for it,’ Uhwal suggested with a note of concern in his voice.
‘There are too many cops around, mate. If one of us gets caught, we are both done. Besides, we haven’t actually done anything wrong.’
Then a local man entered the room. He told Ujwal that this had happened before and he should just pay the immigration officer 500 rupees each and we’d both be released. I knew it. The yelling was designed to force the price up a bit, but I’d pay the 500 rupees and then kick myself in the arse later.
We waited a little while longer and the local came back again and told Ujwal not to make the payment as they were talking about taking us to the police station. The angry man came back into the room and had a photographer with him. He tried to take my photo, but I kept turning my head. The angry man yelled at me to turn and face the camera and, as I turned to refuse, the flash went off and they both retreated outside again. Excellent. Now the prick has a photo of me.
