“There was a contract between Screen Actors Guild and Artists’ Managers Guild November 1 of 1949. It was amended June 30, 1954, and primarily to include the television supplement or rule 16-E?”*
“Yes, but don’t you find we had a little opening there? Was that blanket waiver that we couldn’t interfere with it?”
“There were certain conditions but they were minimal. The letter is addressed, by the way, to both MCA-Revue. The letter states that you will waive commissions and that type of thing but other than that it is very, very general and proceeded entirely from the limited waiver which was granted by Screen Actors Guild to other television film producers, to wit, there was a paragraph in the [former] waiver which states that if an agent receiving the waiver extended its production scope any degree, he may lose his franchise, as [contrasted] with the MCA waiver which was granting an unlimited, almost as many productions as they could possibly produce. There is a marked difference.”
“There is a marked difference between an agent and an agency that has a subsidiary production company which is in the production business.”
“It’s my understanding from reading Rule 16-E that the primary obligation of the talent agency, whether or not it is also a television company, is acting as a talent agency not a production company.”
“Yes, but how many of those other talent agents would have a subsidiary corporation?”
“We don’t know how many would have set up a subsidiary had they received a blanket waiver.”
“I think that might have—”
“Would that have been a condition precedent to granting a blanket waiver?”
“No, but I don’t see how we could have refused them.”
“Did you participate in negotiations leading to amended Rule 16-E which is the Screen Actors Guild rule dealing—actually it’s the agreement between SAG and AMG. Did you participate in these?”
“I think I negotiated probably. What was the year of that first one?”
“The first one is November 1, 1949. It was amended on June 1, 1954.”
“I know I participated in the 1949 ones. I am not sure that I was a member of that committee that went on to amend and negotiate the next. As a matter of fact, it seems to me maybe the minutes will show I am wrong but I think I kind of ran for cover and ducked on that.”
“Do you recall any discussions with other members of Screen Actors Guild, be they members of the board of directors or just union members, with respect to waivers to talent agents?”
“This was always a subject of discussion among actors whether they should or shouldn’t. As I told you, I always held the other view. There were actors who always believed there were no extenuating circumstances. An agent should be an agent.”
“Who were those actors?”
“Oh, some of them on the board. It’s sort of a general thing.”
“Can you recall anyone specifically, in your many discussions concerning waivers on Screen Actors Guild, a member who voiced a dissenting opinion, didn’t agree with yours?”
“This would be terribly unfair if I tried to name. A name comes to my mind but I can’t be sure that he was. Chick Chandler I think had voiced his feelings, not that he would say ‘no, I’m against it’ and I don’t doubt he would go along, but he would say, ‘I think we are wrong and this shouldn’t go on.’ To pick out individuals—which tooth of the buzz saw cuts you?”
“Do you recall ever having any discussions with Mr. Wasserman concerning waivers?”
“If they were, they were, no, I don’t really recall. I was going to say they would be social and so forth. I was always very conscious of my position in the Guild and also my relationship with Lew and he was very conscious of it also.”
“My question is still, sir, do you recall ever having had any discussion or discussions, be they at a cocktail party or anywhere, where you discussed waivers?”
“It’s possible we did, but I don’t recall.”
“You do not recall but it is possible?”
“Yes. It would not be beyond reason that I would express myself to him that I believed that this was right, although I don’t recall [ever] doing it.”
“But you held that opinion in 1952. Is it likely, sir, that you might have expressed it to Mr. Wasserman?”
“Might have, yes.”
“Do you recall whether you did?”
“I do not recall.”
“Do you recall whether you expressed your opinion to Mr. [Park]?
“I doubt it.”
“Do you recall whether or not either Messrs. [Park] or Wasserman asked you your opinion with respect to waivers?”
“That I am sure they never did.”
“I will ask you the question very generally with respect to MCA, had you ever had such discussions with any other personnel at MCA?”
“No.”
“Do you recall, sir, who was the leading TV production company as of 1952?”
“1952 I didn’t interest myself particularly of how they rated or how they stood. I wasn’t in television. I don’t know. I don’t know when Screen Gems started. Wait a minute, I’m sure they had to be started because I did some shows. I am dating everything from my marriage. I don’t know who would be in the lead. I know Screen Gems was under way. Hal Roach, Jr., was making a great many television shows at the time.”
“Was Revue in contention at this time?”
“They might have been.”
“They were one of the biggest?”
“They were?”
“I am asking you, weren’t they?”
“Oh, they could have been. As I told you, a great deal of television in those days was in New York and centered there.”
“When did you first start with GE Theater?”
“’54.”
“What were the terms under which you appeared in the GE Theater?”
“I was not to [exceed] six shows. That was my own contention because I didn’t want to over-expose myself. I introduced all of the shows and closed them out. I specifically refuse to do commercials and I don’t think an actor should, and I did a number of weeks of touring for the company, visiting plants and employees, meeting the employees and appearing publicly, speaking and so forth, speaking speeches as a part of General Electric’s employee and community relations program, because our show is under the institutional program.”
“This was as early as 1954?”
“That’s right.”
“This was part of the contract?”
“That’s right.”
“Who negotiated your contract for GE Theater, Mr. Reagan?”
“Well, my first approach—do you mean with me?”
“No. Who represented you?”
“Art [Park].”
“With whom did he negotiate?”
“Art [Park] would have negotiated—well, first of all, it was Revue through Taft Schreiber who approached me. I turned down regular television shows a great deal. I did not feel—most actors were a little gun-shy of a series. I had been approached and offered seriously by other people. I kept holding out for motion pictures. Taft Schreiber finally told me of this client that was leaving a musical show, which turned out to be The Fred Waring Show, and they had an idea if they could move in with a certain type of show, that this sponsor would listen and they outlined to me the plan. They were going to submit an anthology, which is our type of show. Anthologies had been singularly unsuccessful and they felt the reason was because there was no continuing personality on which to hang the production and advertising of the show. So they were going to solve it by having a host, me, if I would do the job. Well, it met all of my previous objections; first of all, I couldn’t be over-exposed and it would be made economically possible to get a good enough income out of the show to tie myself up for that time, and following that time it rested there until, while they then went in through BBD&O, the advertising agency, to sell to General Electric. At this point now came the discussion about me and where I sit and then Art [Pa
rk] negotiated with Revue and I am sure with representation by BBD&O, because I ended up as an employee of Batten, Barton, Durstine and Osborn, the advertising agency.”
“How did that happen?”
“Well, it happened because the agency did not want me to be an employee of Revue. They felt that this, as later I was told, they felt this would put Revue, if this thing clicked and if I were the principal character of the show, it would give Revue more bargaining power than they wanted them to have with regard to future production. So they wanted control of me as an employee. Usually it’s done that way. The sponsor won’t have us as an employee. The sponsor doesn’t want to have to justify an actor to the stockholders but he can justify so much for advertising and you are part of advertising. So I was employed by BBD&O.”
“How long are the terms of the contract?”
“Five years with [a] one-way option, meaning I have to work for five years but they can drop me any one of those five.”
“You were salaried?”
“I was salaried.”
“Had Art [Park] attempted to obtain any ownership interest for you in the GE Theater?”
“No, when the show started the show was basically live so this was not an issue. We did a few pilots because we knew there were actors who still work on live television. The bulk of the show was made of live television shows.”
“Is it unusual for an actor, a performer as yourself, to have an ownership in a live program?”
“This is very possible also but you must recall the only thing I would have been able to bargain for at this point was with the few shows I was in because my opening and closing did not go on beyond General Electric. There was no residual in my introduction of the show. No one else can ever use that.”
“Did you discuss the possibility of an ownership interest in GE Theater in 1954 with anyone?”
“No.”
“You did not discuss it with Art [Park]?”
“No, the main point of contention, and this became a great point of contention between Revue and MCA, was over a little idiosyncrasy of mine. In all the time I had ever done guest shows when I had done them on film I had always refused to sell the foreign motion picture rights. Many actors who do film television, when it’s on film, they give up for their television fee the right to show that picture in foreign theatres. As a practical point I never wanted my pictures, which I know are made at a different budget for television, to ever have to compete on a motion picture screen with motion pictures made at a cost of millions of dollars. I didn’t think it was fair for me as a performer. Revue wanted, if I wanted any of the show, they wanted the right to show them as they did other actors in the motion picture theatre. It finally came to a point when Art [Park], on my behalf, wouldn’t give in. So Art [Park] who is a vice-president and Taft Schreiber who is a vice-president in charge of Revue went and took the problem to the head school teacher, Lew Wasserman, who is the president of the whole works and Lew Wasserman asked Art [Park] which he thought in a decision of this kind what was best for me as a performer and both Taft and Art had to admit naturally it was best for me as a performer not to give up the motion picture rights and it was Wasserman who said then, there is no question he doesn’t give up his motion picture rights.”
“Mr. Wasserman arbitrated the dispute between [Park] and Schreiber?”
“And ruled in my favor.”
“So then ownership never came into the picture in 1954?”
“No, television—it’s hard to think those few years back—television was pretty new. I had been offered ownership in some series that had been offered to me in which I would play a continuing part but, you see, the main bargaining value that an actor has in getting that kind of ownership is on his service as an actor. We are talking about a thing in which at the moment I would only appear in three or four and the rest would be live shows and I would only appear in three or four of these. Also, it happened when this came along I didn’t have much bargaining power and I practically sat for fourteen months without a day’s work in the motion pictures. They weren’t beating a path to my door offering me parts and this television show came riding along, the cavalry to the rescue.”
“They were beating a path to your door with respect to other TV series, were they not?”
“I was offered several and that is a lot. Seems like a lot. I was offered several which I wouldn’t accept. I didn’t believe I wanted to live in New York.”
“Limiting our investigation here to the TV media, any of the offers which you received prior to your acceptance of the GE Theater in 1954, did they have ownership interests to them?”
“The offers to me?”
“That’s correct.”
“Oh, yes, when you are offered a part and they want you to play every week for thirteen weeks, of course, they offer you an interest in the show.”
“So you had experiences with being offered interest?”
“Yes.”
“In television shows?”
“Yes.”
“Yet in 1954 when you signed the contract to perform in GE Theater, the ownership interest angle never occurred to you?”
“No, because that was not the kind of show supplemented [sic] to that. As I told you, we didn’t know if we were going to be successful. We had nothing to go on.”
“Well, nothing is known to be successful. It’s not known. You are taking a chance any time. My question is directed to whether it occurred to you in 1954?”
“No.”
“That you should have one?”
“I was very satisfied with the money that was offered.”
“You did not discuss it with Mr. [Park]?”
“No.”
“Will you tell this grand jury what your salary was for GE Theater in 1954?”
“I think it started at $120,000.”
“Was that a year?”
“A year.”
“Break that down.”
“A year.”
“You were not paid by the number of shows.”
“No. It was prorated, at my request, prorated to a fifty-two-week-year payment.”
“Which would mean $10,000—no, you said $120,000?”
“$10,000 a month. I think that puts me in the eighty-percent bracket.”
“Did the show appear fifty-two weeks in the 1955 season?”
“No, we re-run through the summer. We review old shows through the summer.”
“In 1957, in one season, GE Theater was on the air two times?”
“Not quite. You always give up a couple pre-emptions. Every show does. The network has the right to put on another show if they take your Sunday night away from you.”
“Loosely speaking, you made approximately $2,500 a show, is that correct?”
“It figures out to that.”
“That is all the monies that you realized from 1954 to 1955?”
“No, there was a graduated salary. It went up a little bit each of those five years. I don’t recall now just how many but there was an increase, but for the two years it stayed. Then, as it proved itself, there was a little premium for continuing.”
“When did it first occur to you, sir, that you should have an ownership interest in the GE Theater?”
“Along the end of the five years. We had been moving up the number of pictures we were making instead of live, and I was very instrumental, I never missed a chance to bedevil General Electric, that they would do better on screen than live. We were moving up and we made the decision just about the last year or so of the five-year deal. We made the decision to go all film. Now, this deal did not increase. That was, it decreased the number of shows I was in. I was still doing only about four shows a year. But each year while I have had an option that could be taken up each year, each year Revue had to go to bat with the agency and General Electric to see whether they would produce the show. They received no credit for having produced a successful show. Their general business policy is we are going to talk to all the producing compan
ies and see how they can do this.”
“General Electric is a great believer [in] competition?”
“Yes, both within and without the company. As a matter of fact, they proved it by firing guys you gentlemen were engaged with recently. Each time I had to, sir, wait to see if my option was going to be taken up and finally as it was evidenced, that show was successful and as it was evidenced, this would be recognized. General Electric was having me go on tours. Each year I go on these tours all over the country and make speeches. This had a great impact. It was never done by anyone in the television business so it was apparent that I had a value, a relationship with General Electric that was probably sufficient over and beyond the show, that if the show wasn’t successful they would still retain me. I was employed by BBD&O. As a matter of fact, Revue at my request tried to get General Electric and BBD&O to let me produce several of the shows because I wasn’t getting credit as being a producer, actually being in back of the actual productions. They resisted. They didn’t want me to ever have that much authority.”
“When you say ‘they,’ you mean BBD&O and General Electric?”
“They liked it the way it was. So finally at the end of the five years at this point General Electric, the agency, went out to CBS. They went to Four Star. They went to Screen Gems. Even to some independent production companies and they weren’t going to buy a new show. They went to these companies and I always frankly felt it was a little funny. It was kind of rough going. They used to go to them and say, ‘We want the same kind of show which you have, now what kind of a deal can we get from you fellows if you produce these shows?’”
“What companies?”
“Four Star, Dick Powell, Screen Gems, CBS. CBS was always competing with Revue, trying to do the show. At the end of the five-year contract I had had MCA expiring with General Electric and BBD&O, if there wasn’t some way I could cut down my senior partner, the Department of Internal Revenue, and start building something for the future, instead of taking everything in straight income.”
“Was this your own idea or was this suggested to you by somebody else?”
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