by Ross Heaven
Can you say more about how negative beliefs affect us?
La Gringa: In the Andes shamans talk about “good” and “bad ideas” and these are, in a way, what I mean by thoughtforms. Sometimes they talk about a “good” or “bad wind” as well. These “winds” are an accumulation of thoughts or energies that are attracted to each other and share a common affinity.
I recently took a horse ride with a friend, for example, to visit the Q’ero people of the high Andes and some way into our journey, miles from anywhere and from medical help, my friend swooned and fell from her horse then lay on the ground shaking.
Luckily we had a shaman with us who knew what had happened, and taking out his coca leaves he placed them on her and blew through them into her crown. She stopped shaking straightaway and then began to come round.
When I asked him what had happened he just shrugged and said “a bad wind.” She had been hit by a thoughtform that had, in a way, possessed her. He had blown a different energy into her to remove it and fill her with light.
But imagine: if stray thoughts can do this much damage how much stronger are our own ideas? Our beliefs about ourselves, our sicknesses and our powers or weaknesses are not random after all; they are personal to us and may have been with us for many years. So it is literally true that our thoughts can kill or cure us and we must be careful about what we think. San Pedro heals us by showing us the origins of our beliefs and replacing those that don’t serve us with better and more wholesome ideas.
There is a diet that goes with San Pedro, just as there is for ayahuasca. But with San Pedro it is easier. Can you say something about it?
La Gringa: All teacher plants require some ritual precautions prior to and during the ceremony. This is what we call the diet. It refers not just to restrictions around food and drink as the name might suggest, but to other behaviors as well so we approach the plant with a pure intent. So when we talk about the “diet” it is really more like the ancient Greek understanding of a dieta, a change in lifestyle not just in what we eat.
San Pedro does not ask for major changes but, nevertheless, the day before it is drunk food should be as bland as possible and contain no alcohol, meat, oils or fats, spices, citrus fruits, or juices and there should be no sex.
For about twelve hours before the ceremony there should be no food at all. This means a day of fasting if you are drinking San Pedro at night, or no food from about 8 p.m. on the night before if you are drinking it the next day. For a few hours before the ritual there should also be a period of quiet reflection so you can think about what you would like to heal or learn about yourself.
That is really all that the diet requires, although there are some specific conditions where a consultation with your shaman and medical doctor is recommended in advance of drinking San Pedro. These include problems with the colon, high blood pressure, heart conditions, diabetes, or mental illness. None of these will necessarily prevent you from drinking since the condition itself may be the very thing that you want San Pedro to cure, but your shaman and doctor must know.
I’ve heard it said that the “processes” involved in ceremonies can contribute to the effects, that the shaman acts as a sort of hypnotherapist, for example, and offers healing suggestions to the patient, while the ritual contains practices like meditation that are themselves relaxing and healing. What do you think of that idea?
La Gringa: I sometimes get asked things like that by people who want to know what the “makeup” of San Pedro is, what its “active ingredients” are, and “how it works.” I tell them I don’t know and don’t care!
For me, it is not San Pedro’s “mescaline content” or “properties” that are important; it is a healing spirit that produces miracles that I have seen with my own eyes. So I really don’t know or care how it works because I can’t explain a miracle any more than those who ask me about it can! But I know this: if you needed a miracle because your life was in that much pain and if—by the grace of God and San Pedro—you got one, you wouldn’t care how or why it worked either!
Part of our disease, it seems to me, is to want to “understand” the world in terms of its “mechanisms” when its nuts and bolts really don’t matter at all. It is the beauty of the world that should attract, engage, and inspire us! When we drink San Pedro that is one of the first things we learn—and then our questions become irrelevant anyway. So the real answer for those who want to know the hows and whys of San Pedro is simple: drink it and you will see!
PART TWO: THE 2011 INTERVIEW
You’ve described your early encounters with San Pedro as sometimes painful, and said that you didn’t always want to drink it but Rubén made you. Can you say some more about these experiences—what San Pedro showed you, why it was painful, and what you learned from it? Also what was it about San Pedro and the experience that kept you coming back to it given that it was sometimes unpleasant for you?
La Gringa: Every encounter I have had with San Pedro has been profound. The early days of drinking were sometimes painful and emotional as it’s difficult to face yourself, your fears, to confront issues that are hidden deep inside, to discover the truth. What kept me going back was that even in the pain, the emotions, the fear, I knew I was cleansing and healing, facing my past, this lifetime and past lifetimes, understanding the whys of everything that had happened and getting the lesson, releasing the past, and most of all because San Pedro taught me to love myself, something that I had never been able to do before.
The plant taught me how to really see, feel, and love this beautiful world and everything in it—which was another new experience for me. It taught me to trust, to trust myself and the universe too—that it would supply me with more than I need to believe in miracles, to believe in myself, to learn to let go of the past, stop worrying about the illusion of the future and live with gratitude for each moment. That’s why I totally trust this medicine for myself, my family, my dogs, and for everyone that this plant calls.
San Pedro has changed you personally then?
La Gringa: Wachuma has changed me so much that I don’t even recognize the girl I used to be! From the age of thirteen I suffered from severe depression, right up until I started drinking plant medicine at about the age of thirty-eight. That depression was like a deep, dark downward spiral that I couldn’t get out of; there seemed like there was no light at the end of the tunnel. It was continuous. I still do get depressed at times, which is a pain, but at least now it only visits once or twice a year for a short period of time, maybe a day to a week. And now it’s easy for me to get out of it again too because I know that I can. Then when I am free of it I can actually laugh at myself.
The plant has shown me how to love myself; to be grateful for the incredible people in my life, friends, family, and strangers; to experience gratitude for the gift of being part of this magnificent world; to see and feel energy; to love and receive love in so many ways each day. It has taught me to be softer, kinder and has shown me how creative I am, making me realize that I can manifest anything in my life as long as I am absolutely clear on what I want.
Of course there are things that I would still like to change about myself, and San Pedro shows and reminds me; it won’t even let a nasty thought enter my head without drawing my attention to it. But as I said, it’s all our choice in the end and sometimes I don’t put the wisdom from wachuma into action. But it stays in us always and will always be there to teach us even if we don’t want to know sometimes. But at least I am aware of my thoughts, feelings, and actions so much more than before.
Could you describe a particularly profound experience you’ve had with San Pedro (“good” or “bad”)?
La Gringa: All San Pedro experiences are profound really. One that was a huge wake-up call for me though was in 2002. I had been having bad financial problems, my nerves were shot, I was on the verge of anorexia, in an awful relationship, and just nothing seemed to be going well for me. I was feeling desperate; I didn’t know what to do.
A man [a patient] came from Chile to drink San Pedro with me. I knew I wasn’t in good shape to run a ceremony, but I also realized that San Pedro was calling me, as it was him, because I had not taken the medicine for a long time. So off we headed to the mountains, to the same sacred place that I had drunk my first time.
Named Chakan, it’s also known as the Rainbow Rocks and it’s quite far from anything. I felt that it would be a good place for me to reconnect to. We both drank, and I was sitting against a rock with my eyes closed, then behind my closed eyes I felt the presence of this man but somehow he had changed. I opened my eyes and he had kind of shape-shifted. He didn’t look anything like the man I had arrived with and I was quite startled.
He then said in perfect English (which by the way, he didn’t speak; he had very broken English), “Lesley [La Gringa’s birth name], when are you going to follow the instructions?”
As he said this my first thought was, “Oh my God, that sounds like my father.” And just as I thought this he said, “This is a message from your father.”
I was shocked but knew that something very important was about to happen. He carried on, “I am going to give you several instructions and if you follow them you will be going home to South Africa for a visit and everything will change for you. You will no longer have these problems and you will be very happy and have all you need to support you. But you have to follow the instructions!”
My first reaction was to laugh and think someone was playing a trick on me. I said, “I can’t even buy a local bus ticket so how am I going to go to South Africa?” He replied, “Someone in your family will buy you a ticket.”
I laughed even louder. “My family isn’t even talking to me right now and haven’t for a long while as they don’t understand my love for Peru or why I abandoned everything to be here.” He replied that it will be as he said as long as I follow the instructions . . .
Get rid of your boyfriend tonight! (He even mentioned his name even though he didn’t know him and had no connection to us). Well that was clear to me, that I had to do that in order for me to regain my dignity and be at peace.
Never sleep with anyone that you are not in love with.
Give up smoking.
Eat three good meals a day, with something in between.
Drink a minimum of two liters of water every day because, he said, I am living in very high vibration and I needed water to reach both sides of my brain. Two liters would bring back stability and harmony. He said that was true for everybody.
When I got to South Africa I should act in the way that would bring peace and happiness to my family. I replied that no, I would not act because acting was a lie. He said that acting was acting and a lie was a lie. I should learn the difference.
Once I could act in a way so that my family could feel happy, harmony would be regained. At that point my life would change and good things would happen for me. Once I got to South Africa I would be given a fantastic holiday, many gifts, and would receive money. And while I was away my business would prosper and all my debts would be paid. I would have a really good amount of money to return to.
And all I had to do was follow the instructions!
So the first thing I did was throw my cigarette away and I actually stopped smoking from that moment for five years. (I am now an on-and-off smoker again and San Pedro is not pleased with that; nor am I).
On my arrival home that night, immediately as I entered my house, I said to my boyfriend, “I want you to leave right now please.” He just looked at me and said, “Yes, I understand and I will leave right away.” Not another word was spoken between us. He just left and I felt very relieved.
I followed the instructions, started to eat well again, put on some weight, drank my two liters a day and was feeling really happy and positive. Then a few months later, as I was in my garden enjoying the sun and the flowers, I received a phone call from my ex-husband whom I hadn’t spoken to for about a year. I was surprised to hear his voice and asked him why he was calling. He replied that he had been thinking about me and that it was time for me to come home to visit my family and he would like to buy me a ticket! I was astounded of course but very happy to know that after many years of not seeing them I was about to meet my family again!
He bought my ticket and I arrived in Cape Town with about $20 in my pocket. I went first to see my daughter, my new grandson, and my ex-husband. I then went to visit my mom and sister and brother and everyone showered gifts and cash on me! I understood what the channeling with my father had meant, and I “acted” in the way that they could see another side of who I am, a “me” they could finally understand. I made them feel happy. (Before San Pedro I was known as “the Fighter” in the family, now my sister jokingly calls me “the Wimp”). Our relationships since then have been wonderfully loving, caring, and great fun.
I was gifted holidays: one with my friend Milly to a private game lodge with wild animals wandering near us, and another from my friend Uppy to Mozambique where I swam with dolphins every day at sunrise. What incredible gifts! Gifts that can never be forgotten, from beautiful friends and family. And in all this I realized how much I am loved and this is a gift that I am reminded of frequently. Family and good friends are great gifts for us in this beautiful universe!
After my fabulous vacation I returned back to my home in Cusco to find that the hostel I own had been completely full every day and that people didn’t want to leave! My friend Valeria had run things incredibly well for me, paid all the outstanding bills, and handed me a huge wad of cash!
Another part of the play of my life had unfolded so beautifully and better than I could ever have envisioned. And all because I had followed the instructions!
My dad must have heaved a huge sigh of relief because I never followed instructions and now for the first time I listened! (Thank you dad!) My dad passed over in 1993 but every time I drink San Pedro he is nearby, whispering instructions in my ear and now I always listen!
Has San Pedro ever given you a more “cosmic” vision or understanding of life? For example, what has your training or experience taught you about God, reality, human purpose, et cetera? What are we doing here and why? How do human beings “fit” on the planet—what’s our role?
La Gringa: The understanding I have received is firstly that life is simple! We should stop thinking that it is complicated or hard because thinking it so makes it so! Seek the truth of everything and learn to live in a simple and clear way. Learn to live from the heart not the mind, because the heart is all truth and love.
That is another thing: we are here to learn love—for ourselves first so that we can then really love our brothers and sisters (for that’s what we are on this planet, all of us brothers and sisters). Within the term love fits compassion, understanding, caring, action in love, and learning to let go of the past in order to move forward.
I have had visions with San Pedro of upward spirals of pure light, with humans moving up these spirals and angelic beings helping us into this spiral. I have felt myself within it too. To me it doesn’t matter if that represents a physical spiral of evolution with us really moving into another dimension or if it’s symbolic of humans moving upward into enlightenment, they are basically the same. We are in the process of enormous change and we can choose to stay as we are or become light beings, become like God or stay human. Neither is wrong or right but we have a choice and I believe that billions of people now are choosing to become like God. Call it Christ Consciousness if you want.
The word God . . . Sometimes people ask me if I am religious or what I believe in. To me, God is supreme intelligence, high-voltage pure electrical energy, intense blinding light, unconditional love, all wrapped into One. Sometimes I think we humans are laughable for us to think that God has to be in human form. God is so much more . . .
Following from that, has San Pedro taught you anything about life and death and the soul? Is there an afterlife for example—and if so what is it like? Have you experienced “d
eath” yourself through San Pedro? Ayahuasca is often about death—the “vine of the dead” and so forth—is San Pedro similar in any way? And if so what has it shown you about death?
La Gringa: I have been through a few intense death experiences with ayahuasca, but death in San Pedro is really more like rebirth. It’s like a death of our programming and old habits, like a release more than the kind of physical death you experience in aya.
When I drink San Pedro I always have experiences with my loved ones who have died. These experiences are as real to me as if those people were physically with me. My father died in 1993 and he always comes to me in San Pedro. I can feel his arms holding me and he talks to me, gives me guidance and messages and they are always the right ones for me. I can see him as clearly as when he was alive although I see him as pure light too.
My nephew Leighton has visited me and told me that we should just practice to see them [our loved ones who have passed] because they are always around us, even though they are different now. He says they are very happy and also very busy. As he explained it to me, they are doing many things at the same time but different parts of them are doing different things simultaneously.
I was about to embark on my third journey to Peru in 1993 when my dad discovered he had cancer. The doctors gave him three weeks to three months to live. My dad did not fight this, he simply said take me home to die. I told my dad I was cancelling my trip to Peru to stay with him during this time. He said, “No Lesley, I want you to go, but this time for me.” I argued and said, “Dad, you only have a short time and I want to be with you.” He replied, “I promise I’ll wait for you Les. I will not go before you return.” I said that no one could say when they were going to die and he asked me if I hadn’t learned anything from him. He always taught me that we could control anything, that we were in charge of our lives. He said I must go on my journey and that he would definitely be waiting for me. So off I went, nervously, and when I got back, true to his word, he was still there, very weak, but the first thing he said was, “I told you so. I hope you have learned something!”
