>Did you ask her if Rydell ever got there? –HolyGreil
>First thing I asked! She said that would’ve been back when she was a kid, and they don’t keep a visitor log. –HenryMartyn
>i always think of historical society ladies as old biddies. –HangThaDJ
>Can confirm she is definitely not an old biddy. –HenryMartyn
13Variously, “the bridge,” and “Toll Bridge,” in the British versions. “Tall Bridge” in one early American version, “Fall’s Bridge” in Dolly Parton’s. Unclear whether “Fall’s Bridge” means a bridge belonging to someone named Falls, or a more poetic version involving autumn. –BonnieLass67
14 If it’s a toll bridge, maybe the toll is what William pays in the end. –Rhiannononymous
–BarrowBoy marked this as a stretch–
15 The fact that William asked her to meet him under the bridge goes well with the robber line, since we’re told he’s sweet but then immediately told that he’s both a robber and someone who would lure a young woman under a bridge. Maybe it’s an ironic sweet, like an ugly mobster called Prettyboy or something. –Rhiannononymous
16 Guys! I’m here! In Gall! It has almost everything mentioned in the song: a village, a woods, a stone bridge with a steep embankment. No red carpet of leaves, even though it’s October, but everything else seems to check out. –HenryMartyn
–HolyGreil marked this as cool stuff–
“Don’t go,” said Ellen’s sisters two17,18,19,20
“There’s no good that can follow
A man met moonlit ‘neath the bridge21
Where oaken hearts do gather”22
17 the sisters function as a sort of greek chorus here. –HangThaDJ
–BonnieLass67 marked this as a stretch–
18 Ellen and her sisters represent the three Fates. –Dynamum
–BarrowBoy marked this as a stretch–
19 I’ve always thought the sisters were just sisters, trying to warn Ellen, like a good sister would. There are lots of songs where family tries to warn a woman that her man is no good. –Rhiannononymous
20 It’s worth noting again that the American version documented by the Lomaxes was “While Oaken Sisters Watched.” –BonnieLass67
21 Okay, but if you take the whole verse as the warning, “There’s no good that can follow a man met moonlit ‘neath the bridge,” it can either be a warning telling Ellen not to go because there’s danger for her, or it could be a warning that there’s going to be trouble for him, in which case they might also be saying Ellen herself is no good for William. They seem to know an awful lot about this very specific thing – not just that no good can follow meeting a man at night under a bridge, but also specifically meeting a man at night under that particular bridge, where oaken hearts do gather. –Rhiannononymous
> Or oaken sisters watch –BonnieLass67
22 The quotation marks are obviously not part of the song as passed down orally, but they’re in all the sheet music and broadsides I’ve ever seen. In this stanza the chorus really does sound like it’s part of a quote from the sisters, like they know this place by its reputation. –BonnieLass67
Fair Ellen turned her eyes from them
For she had long decided23
To meet him while the village slept24,25
Where oaken hearts do gather
23 This plays like you would expect in this kind of song. Young woman rejects advice from her wise elders and chooses love, and then discovers too late that her family was right and she’s set herself up for tragedy. This ballad later twists that expectation. (Though that leads to the question of why her sisters don’t want this, if they don’t mean the usual ‘it will lead you astray.’) –Rhiannononymous
24 I used to think this meant that the village itself slept where oaken hearts do gather. –Dynamum
>That’s just stupid. –BarrowBoy
>Hey! I said ‘used to.’ And anyway, there were trees there before people, probably, so technically I’m right either way. –Dynamum
25 The village that Rydell located, Gall, was adjacent to a small, dense woodland that would have been larger back then. The main road went north/south, with south heading through the woods and over an old stone bridge. –HenryMartyn
>I’m here now! Bus took ages. Gall was bypassed by the major motorways, so the village is pretty isolated. But that means the woods are still woods! It’s a bit of a walk to the bridge, and very dark at night, but doable. I’ll admit I was hoping there’d be graffiti carved into the bridge saying “William was here” or “El and Will” or something. –HenryMartyn
Fair Ellen’s steps did lightly fall
On autumn’s red-stained blanket26,27,28
As off she ran to meet her love29
Where oaken hearts do gather
26 Could be blood! –Dynamum
27 This brings us around to what was previewed at the beginning– there the leaves were being stripped by autumn wind, here they’re already on the ground, but she’s off to meet her guy. –Rhiannononymous
28 Hear me out: if you go with the “in autumn” opening variant that the Dead used instead of “one autumn,” this is something that happens every year. The leaves turn red, and off sweet Ellen goes again. That would explain the different-but-repeated nature of the opening and this stanza. That’s what always happens; what happens to William specifically is what happens this time. –HolyGreil
–HenryMartyn marked this as cool stuff–
29 Her light steps and “her love” here tell us that from the narrator’s perspective she is in love and has no intent to deceive. That makes what happens all the more surprising to the listener. –Rhiannononymous
Young William stood in moonlight’s glow
When Ellen came30 upon him
And kissed him as she stole his heart31
Where oaken hearts do gather
30 Some versions use “fell upon him” instead of “came upon him” but that definitely changes the nature of the meeting. –BonnieLass67
31 Still playing with expectations here. We expect “stole his heart” as in fell in love, but the next stanzas makes it grossly literal. –Rhiannononymous
She begged sweet Will to show her how32
He differed from the others33
And prove to her his love was true34
Where oaken hearts do gather
32 This verse is placed interestingly since if the previous one is to be believed, she’s already fallen on him/come to him and stolen his heart, literally or figuratively. Why this demand? –Rhiannononymous
>Some versions do move this verse earlier. Some move it to before the previous verse (usually matched with “fell upon him” instead of “came upon him” since in that case they’ve already arrived at the same place.) The other variant places it third, just after the invitation to the bridge, as if it’s her response. –BonnieLass67
> Huh! Either of those would make more sense, since it seems like otherwise this verse interrupts action with a plea. She’s making the demand after she’s already set things in motion. Unless they had already talked it over, and this is her hoping that he does what he’s promised. –Rhiannononymous
33 This implies that this has happened before. It’s sort of melancholy. Men… –Dynamum
34 There’s no answer given to her request that he prove himself, or else the verse that follows is the test where he’s supposed to prove himself. –Rhiannononymous
His beating heart35 she placed inside36
A37 gnarled and knotted ancient38
to quicken39 come the springtime thaw40
Where oaken hearts do gather
35 There’s really no figurative way to take this. And ew, why is it still beating? –Dynamum
36 ironic that she places the heart so delicately after ripping it out of his chest. –HangThaDJ
37 Some early variants say “*her* gnarled and knotted ancient.“ –BonnieLass67
38 Gnarled and knotted ancient what? That’s a weird descript
ion. –Dynamum
> “A gnarled and knotted ancient” = presumably a very old tree. –Rhiannononymous
>Hey @HenryMartyn, did you or Rydell find a tree like this? –HolyGreil
>All the trees I’ve seen are new growth. –HenryMartyn
39 Maybe she thinks his heart in the tree will beat faster when she visits –Dynamum
–BarrowBoy marked this as a stretch–
40 I think this is the other meaning of “quicken,” like “to enter into a phase of active growth and development” per dictionary (example is seeds quickening in soil). –BarrowBoy
> But then why place it in an old tree instead of in the ground? –Dynamum
> How would I know? –BarrowBoy
And in his chest she built with care41
A nest of twigs and leaf-fall42
An acorn43,44 cushioned there to grow
Where oaken hearts do gather
41 Again, it goes out of its way to say how much care she took with this part of the operation. –Dynamum
42 In his blog, Dr. Rydell said “The true nature of the exchange made by Ellen and seemingly agreed to by William is perhaps the greatest mystery remaining in this ballad.” Jenny Kirk is helping me do research into Gall’s local folklore. She was telling the truth that their museum is crap, but she’s great. –HenryMartyn
43 Maybe this acorn becomes the sapling at his grave? –Dynamum
44 fun fact: only one in ten thousand acorns becomes an oak tree. –HangThaDJ
And turned he then to look at her
With eyes still seeking answers45,46
She kissed him twice47and left him there48
Where oaken hearts do gather
45 I think this line goes out of its way to make clear that he’s not vegetative at this point, pardon the pun. He’s aware enough to ask questions, though you’d think he would have looked at her before now, and asked questions before now, like “Hey, do you mind putting my heart back? I’m using that.” –Rhiannononymous
46 Maybe he was under some kind of spell? –Dynamum
–BarrowBoy marked this as a stretch–
> Stop marking me down! A few lines later he has literally no voice, so a spell isn’t unreasonable. He’s trying to use his eyes to ask questions. –Dynamum
>@BarrowBoy all you ever do is mark stretches and shoot down other peoples’ theories without ever offering any yourself. Do you care about this ballad at all?–Dynamum
>I don’t even like this song. The melody’s okay, but it needs a bridge. –BarrowBoy
>technically it has a bridge. old, made of stone… –HangThaDJ
>Argh. If you don’t like the song, why are you here? –Dynamum
>For those sweet sweet LyricSplainer level badges. U? –BarrowBoy
>I love the song, but also it’s fascinating! A lot of songs are straightforward, but I love the ones like this that develop a sort of detective team. We’ve got BonnieLass with all the background/history stuff, and Henry the dashing young field work expert, and DJ with random facts and Greil with musicology and Rhiannononymous on language details. –Dynamum
>What does that make you? Comic relief? –BarrowBoy
>Better than you, the one everyone hates but has to put up with. –Dynamum
>If @HenryMartyn’s our field researcher, can I point out that he’s stopped responding? His last response here was on the last verse, over a year ago, and he hasn’t posted on any other songs either. I keep checking in hoping he’ll tell us more about his film. I wish I knew his real name. –HolyGreil
>Hmm. I searched “state arts grant” and “Mark Rydell” and “Looking For Love in All the Lost Places” and got a hit in Pennsylvania. Looks like he’s a Henry from a city called Williamsport (William’s Port? coincidence?) who was a senior at the University of Pennsylvania when he got the grant. I’m not going to post his actual surname here. It seems rude. –Dynamum
>Look at you with the real detective work! Thanks for the lead. Hmm. He was part of the grant announcement, but not the end of year presentation. –HolyGreil
47 Is twice significant? She’d already kissed him once (as she stole his heart) but it’s unclear if this is a second kiss, or two more kisses. –Rhiannononymous
> Maybe the second kiss takes his voice. –Dynamum
> It’s true that he’s already using his eyes to ask. –HolyGreil
> I said he was under a spell and got mocked for it! It’s not like this all has to have exact basis in truth. Maybe they just like kissing. –Dynamum
48 Where did she go? This song never quite makes her and her sisters seem like part of the village. –Rhiannononymous
Young William to the village went
His feet still knew the pathways49
He knew he’d left his years50,51 behind52
Where oaken hearts do gather
49 He’d made this trip so many times he knew it automatically. (I almost said “by heart”) –Dynamum
50 “His years” = the rest of his days? Living on borrowed time now? –Rhiannononymous
51 Some variants say “his fears” instead of his years; others say he left “something.” –BonnieLass67
52 this does make it seem like some kind of spell, like he’s stumbling back without knowing what he’s doing or what has happened. –HangThaDJ
> THANK YOU. I TOLD YOU. –Dynamum
[“Wake up,” he cried, though no one heard53,54,55
“And find the wicked woman56,57
Who stole my life and voice away
Where oaken hearts do gather”]
53 It doesn’t say anything about her taking his voice before this. –BarrowBoy
54 @Moderator can we delete this verse or add it at the bottom? It’s only in a handful of the twentieth century versions and nothing earlier. Not part of the original ballad. –BonnieLass67
–Lyricsplainer ModeratorBot has received this comment and will bring it to a moderator’s attention–
55 It changes a lot, doesn’t it? “Wicked woman” sounds like it was written by someone else entirely. Without this verse, William just goes along with what’s happening. –Rhiannononymous
56 Interesting that he doesn’t know where to find her. There’s no verse where the villagers show up at her house, either, even when they spring into action. –Rhiannononymous
57 i feel bad for him, but he’s kind of a jerk here, trying to shout in the town square in the middle of the night or whatever for everyone to come listen to his problems. i mean, not that any of this is his fault, except he did tell a woman to meet him under the bridge without any regard for the trouble he could get her in. and it does seem like he consented to her test? –HangThaDJ
And when the village came to him58
He could59 not tell his story
Or say what fate befell their son60
Where oaken hearts do gather
58 Does anyone else think it’s strange that “the village came to him”? Where was he? I mean, I guess it means the villagers, not the village, and they came to him at his house? –Dynamum
59 “Would not” instead of “could not” in some early variations. –BonnieLass67
> Ha! Would not = wood knot! Get it? –Dynamum
–BarrowBoy marked this as a stretch–
>@Dynamum I like that pun no matter if it’s a stretch. Don’t let him get you down. –Rhiannononymous
60 This collective “their son” is fascinating considering what they do next. This song has some messed up families, y’all. –Rhiannononymous
>Wait, it’s collective? Like “the son of the village?” I thought it meant “their son” like William and Ellen’s son! –Dynamum
> I never thought of that, but that works too! Especially with the whole quickening thing!
We talked about quickening a seed, but not quickening a womb. –Rhiannononymous
– Rhiannonymous marked this as cool stuff–
–BonnieLass67 marked this as cool stuff–
–HangThaDJ
marked this as cool stuff–
They looked at him with mournful eyes61
Then listened for his heartbeat62,63,64
Where oaken hearts do gather65
Then hung him from the gallows pole66
61 The mournful eyes have always made me think they’ve seen this before. –Dynamum
62 It’s unclear whether they listened for his heartbeat because they’d seen something like this before that his tale reminded them of, or because he looks unwell. –Rhiannononymous
63 And, y’know, he wasn’t speaking –BarrowBoy
64 Did people know about heartbeats by the time this song was written? –Dynamum
> OMG have you heard of Wikipedia? –BarrowBoy
65 This has always horrified me, that they just went and hung him. I guess it’s understandable if they were freaked out that he didn’t have a heartbeat, but still… –Dynamum
66 Out of all the stanzas, this is the one that makes the least sense with “where oaken hearts do gather” as opposed to “while oaken sisters watch.” –BonnieLass67
> Yeah, the town gallows pole was likely not in the same place where oaken hearts do gather, unless you count that a gallows made of oak might contain oaken hearts, whatever they are. –Rhiannononymous
>As you might guess, Gall took down their gallows pole like two hundred years ago. –HenryMartyn
And in the woods67 fair Ellen wept68
Uncanny Magazine Issue 39 Page 12
