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To my mom, who taught me to always listen to a woman with a strong point of view
From Lisa Ling to Debbie Matenopoulos, every person who has left that show has been fired—except for me! And it’s like the Trump administration. They will just continually lie and present a false front. They would go on TV and pretend to be friends when bad things were happening. You have to talk about it.
—Rosie O’Donnell
Prologue
Out, Damned Cohost!
Barbara Walters was creating a scene. Not that she minded it. As the most powerful woman in the news business, her mere presence at Spago in Beverly Hills infused the room with an aura of royalty. The chef came over to welcome her. Other patrons leaned over their plates to get a better look. Any meal with Barbara was always an intimidating exercise, which started with her dropping the names of some people she’d recently run into: Hillary Clinton, Michael Bloomberg, Jennifer Lopez, and more. On this evening in the winter of 2007, her dining companion—Brian Frons, the president of ABC Daytime—tried his best to keep up.
The View, the daytime talk show that Barbara had created in 1997 with a panel of mild-mannered women, had peaked in Season 10. The show was averaging an impressive 3.5 million viewers, up 17 percent from the previous year. Normally, nothing made Barbara happier than strong ratings, like the high school valedictorian that gloated over every percentage point on a math quiz. Yet, despite a surge in viewership, Barbara felt miserable.
In just a few months, The View had suffered through a series of embarrassing controversies, drawing the anger of Donald Trump (mocked for his hair and, even worse, his finances), Kelly Ripa (accused of homophobic behavior after she told a guest, Clay Aiken, not to cover her mouth with his hand), and the entire Asian American community (subjected to a racist impersonation). One culprit was behind all these fires: Rosie O’Donnell.
Barbara knew what had to be done. In the past, she’d quietly orchestrated the firings of other cohosts on The View as they outlasted their welcome: Debbie Matenopoulos in 1999, Lisa Ling in 2002, and Star Jones in 2006. Even though Barbara had recruited Rosie herself, she admitted that she’d made a terrible mistake, telling Trump that much in a private conversation.
Barbara’s decision to push out Rosie wasn’t simply a power play. It was an act of self-preservation. Rosie had disrupted the normal mechanisms of a talk show. She fought constantly with the show’s director, Mark Gentile, and berated the senior staff. She hated the executive producer, Bill Geddie, so much that he took a temporary leave of absence to get away from her. On top of that, Rosie was running around telling the staff that Barbara, at seventy-seven, was much too old to be on TV.
For most of her career, Barbara had been known as a serious news anchor. Now, all that had changed. Her empire had expanded in a lopsided direction, unheard of for a news icon. She looked more like the matriarch of an out-of-control family—a septuagenarian Kris Jenner before the world knew who that was. Camera crews from TMZ regularly camped out on the sidewalk of Barbara’s Upper East Side apartment, trying to ask her about the latest drama unfolding on The View. She didn’t like it one bit.
“I know you’ve been very calm this year, and I really appreciate that,” Barbara told Frons after they’d exchanged pleasantries.
“I want the best for you and the show.” He sighed, momentarily relieved.
Barbara was nothing if not direct. “I do want you to know,” she calmly announced, “if you re-sign Rosie to this show, Bill and I are going to quit.”
* * *
Barbara Walters, the griller-in-chief of world leaders and presidents, had a soft spot for a heroine that gulped cosmopolitans. Barbara loved Sex and the City, the HBO series about four girlfriends trying to have it all in New York City. Sometimes, for a fleeting moment, she’d imagine herself in Carrie Bradshaw’s Manolo Blahniks. “I watch old reruns,” she told me one afternoon, sitting in her dressing room at The View, decorated with framed pictures of her daughter, Jackie, and her beloved Havanese dog, Cha-Cha. “I still think Sarah Jessica Parker is adorable, and I want her to meet Mr. Big and live happily ever after.” The View, which debuted one year before Sex and the City, even played like the unscripted version—minus the one-night stands, but with just as much yakking, fussing, and chatter about defining a woman’s worth on the journey to having it all.
In television history, The View’s influence is significant in a way that doesn’t usually get said out loud. When Barbara started the show, with a group of pals (Meredith Vieira, Star Jones, Joy Behar, and Debbie Matenopoulos), news and opinion were clearly separated. In the pre-Twitter age, reporters such as Barbara weren’t allowed to tell the public what they thought, let alone speculate about a president’s marriage or relationship to his mistress or children (which The View made into a national pastime). The show offered a venue where opinion wasn’t just as important as news, it was the news in some cases, such as when Rosie O’Donnell made noise with her September 11 conspiracy theories or Whoopi Goldberg refused to believe her friend Bill Cosby was a rapist. “We didn’t create a new format,” Barbara said. “We created a new atmosphere.” In 2011, Anderson Cooper unveiled an afternoon talk show while keeping his anchor job at CNN—nobody questioned him because Barbara had already done it.
Speaking of CNN, its political coverage had come to look a lot like The View, with Trump supporters playing the role of Elisabeth Hasselbeck. It’s hard to watch television now without running up against a row of bickering pundits. The View got there first, as the Martha Washington of panel shows, and it made the idea of a single talk show host (Jerry Springer, Sally Jessy Raphael, Ricki Lake, etc.) seem quaint. In our supersize culture, why settle for one voice when you can have five—even if that means straining to hear them scream over one another?
Barbara handpicked all the original cohosts of The View, called them “the ladies,” and treated them like her TV daughters. As each of the ingénues rose to fame, their own personal lives and dramas became mini-sagas that unfolded in real time. To be a cohost of The View meant excavating your deepest secrets—a foreshadowing of our TMZ (and TMI) culture. In a way, The View was TV’s first mainstream reality show after The Real World. Yes, three years later, Survivor took credit for that, but The View opened a window into the personal relationships among strong women, a predecessor to Bravo’s Real Housewives or MTV’s The Hills. “It was like a reality show and a soap opera,” said Debbie Matenopoulos, the youngest cohost, who got the job when she was twenty-two. “There’s something about how raw and real it would be.”
The View certainly paved the way for the CBS knockoff series The Talk, which emphasized less politics and more celebrity; the Fox show The Real, targeted to younger women of color; the ABC cooking show The Chew; the failed Tyra Banks offering FABLife; and Fox News’s Outnumbered, the Republican edition. “We are copied almost line by line by other programs,” Barbara said. “It�
�s sort of flattering.” The View wasn’t TV’s first panel show (Politically Incorrect and Crossfire ran before it), but it brought the genre to daytime.
The View made it socially acceptable for men to yammer about their feelings, too. Dick Clark cribbed the conceit for 2001’s The Other Half, costarring Mario Lopez and Danny Bonaduce. Joan Rivers spearheaded her own View pilot with several loud gay men, called Straight Talk—her cohosts were the then unknown Andy Cohen and Billy Eichner. Come to think of it, even Rivers’s Fashion Police, which had a panel of experts dissing celebrity frocks on the red carpet, traced its origins back to you know where. “I think they would absolutely slit their wrists if I managed to draw a line between Fashion Police and The View,” said Melissa Rivers, who cohosted the E! series with her mom.
The mood across the country in 1997, The View’s birth year, was dramatically different from what it is now. Ellen DeGeneres had just kicked down the door as TV’s first openly gay sitcom star, although it was clear she wouldn’t be successful. Hillary Clinton was a full-time first lady, hiding her ambitions to run for a seat in the Senate. As the baby boomer generation raised their own kids, college-educated women weren’t as likely to give up their careers. Yet for those who did, Barbara carved out a room of one’s own. The View was like the walking, talking antithesis to The Feminine Mystique, the groundbreaking 1963 book by Betty Friedan, which explored the causes of unhappiness among housewives. According to Joy Behar, a reason that The View succeeded was that it was an unapologetically feminist show: “We basically embody a feminist. We are self-employed. We have control over our personal lives. We try to do as much with our lives as we can.”
While the show tried to celebrate its empowered stars, that didn’t always happen. Sometimes The View was overshadowed by “catfights,” as the media loved to speculate about how the ladies really felt about one another. When it comes to women in Hollywood, the press has always had a double standard. Then again, the ladies of The View never masked their true feelings. “They all had a lot of relational aggression,” shrugged Tina Fey, who cowrote the Saturday Night Live sketches of The View, starring Cheri Oteri as Barbara.
The View got hip early on that treating happenings on Capitol Hill like a soap opera could be riveting TV. It was ahead of its time in thinking that politicians were celebrities. Back in 1992, Bill Clinton’s appearance as a saxophone-playing governor on The Arsenio Hall Show was considered an exception to the norms of late-night TV. But The View made daytime hospitable to senators, from Elizabeth Warren to John McCain; vice presidents, such as Dick Cheney and Joe Biden; and President Barack Obama, who stopped by the show twice in 2012 to rally women voters for his reelection bid. “I like hanging out with women, what can I tell you?” said Obama, the first sitting president in history to appear on daytime TV.
Michelle Obama counted herself a loyal viewer. So did Nancy Reagan, who would call up if she felt the show’s signature Hot Topics debates sounded too critical of her late husband’s legacy. Nicolle Wallace, a cohost who had worked as George W. Bush’s communications director, watched The View from the White House—“It’s this iconic show,” she said—as a barometer of national moods. “If a political topic was on their radar, I used it as ammunition with the president or the White House staff,” she recalled. She’d tell them, “This is such a big deal. They are talking about it on the damn View.”
The show inadvertently offered a bridge between Hillary Clinton and Trump before they knew they’d become political adversaries. Both attended the much-hyped Star Jones wedding in 2004, where they sat at the same table. Trump was a regular guest on The View. Clinton’s presence loomed larger. Over the years, she was like a phantom sixth cohost, an easy conversation starter for Barbara’s ladies. Hillary was a prism through which the cohosts viewed themselves, from the Monica Lewinsky scandal through Clinton’s years as a US senator and secretary of state. In the lead-up to her first presidential run, Clinton used The View as a warm-up for how she’d fare with tough questions.
So in December 2006, days before Christmas, Clinton made an appearance on The View, with anecdotes about opening presents with Bill and Chelsea. But she was eclipsed by a figure who would later haunt her. Rosie opened the show that day with a historic roast of Trump, which led to an infamous and bitter feud. Clinton watched the routine from her dressing room, not knowing that ten years later she’d be facing off against Trump for her dream job, and that Rosie’s name would be dragged into one of their presidential debates. “I was laughing so hard backstage, I didn’t think I’d get out,” Clinton said, when she settled on the couch, channeling a friendly pal.
“Every day we’re in trouble on this show,” Joy offered, correctly predicting the firestorm ahead.
“Isn’t that interesting?” Clinton asked. “I wonder why that happens?”
“I don’t know,” Joy said. “We’re just women.”
Part One
Barbara’s View
1
Everybody’s a Critic
For a long time, nobody had any clue why Barbara Walters—who symbolized the gold standard of the TV news business—would dip her feet in the murky waters of daytime. This was the genre that gave rise to paternity tests, plastic surgery, and “too fat to wear.” In 1983, a serious broadcaster named Sally Jessy Raphael started a talk show with the goal of tackling lofty societal issues. But a few years in, she caved and went the tabloid route. All her competitors were doing the same. Geraldo Rivera staged so many fights he ended up with a broken nose during an episode called “Teen Hatemongers.” Maury Povich made a cottage industry out of unfaithful boyfriends. Jenny Jones was on a constant search for guests who didn’t know their real daddies. Jerry Springer presided over a circus of angry misfits who threw chairs and fists. The nuclear arms race for smut TV was the complete opposite of Barbara’s brand, as an erudite ambassador of world news—with access to everybody from Barbra Streisand to Mu‘ammar Gaddafi.
Most daytime talk had evolved from Phil Donahue, who in 1967 launched his eponymous show that changed the culture. Donahue had no fear of boundaries or taboos—he tackled homosexuality decades before Will & Grace, once invited a Nazi to speak to an audience of Jews, and challenged a young Donald Trump about his real estate dealings. “We can’t continue to give you guys these big tax breaks,” Donahue scolded. Just as important, he taped his show in front of a live audience, taking their questions and concerns into living rooms across the country.
His no-holds-barred approach cleared the way for Oprah Winfrey, who duplicated the template. Winfrey had grown up in Chicago as a reporter who studied Walters on NBC’s Today, imitating her interviewing techniques and style. When Winfrey landed her own nationally syndicated talk show in 1986, she gravitated toward education and information, emulating a best friend you can trust with your deepest secrets. By the midnineties, Oprah ruled the cult of stay-at-home moms with “remember your spirit” segments and book club recommendations. The inspirational programming made Winfrey the mightiest woman on TV, with up to 20 million daily viewers.
But in 1996, she finally got some competition. Rosie O’Donnell, a comedic actress from movies (Sleepless in Seattle, A League of Their Own, and The Flintstones), wanted to take a shot at her own talk show. She modeled her venture on a staple from her childhood: 1961’s Mike Douglas Show, on which the squeaky-clean host chatted playfully with rising celebrities such as Aretha Franklin and Mel Brooks. Douglas was an early adopter of celebrity gab, an afternoon counterpart to The Tonight Show, which had started seven years before. In Rosie’s reboot, the format stayed the same, but she revved up the pace with Broadway musical numbers, audience giveaways, and lengthy discussions about her crush—back when she was closeted—on Tom Cruise. As two of TV’s biggest moguls, O and Ro built up their kingdoms, shaping pop culture and raking in fortunes.
Unlike soap operas, most talk shows are cobbled together quickly and inexpensively. There’s no need for actors or too many writers toiling on scripts. The biggest expense i
s usually the host’s salary, assuming he or she is a marquee name. Many of the giants in the industry started out small, such as Regis Philbin, who climbed into his seat on Live with Regis and Kathie Lee in 1988 after years as a local morning emcee in New York and LA. The measure of a successful host is genuine connection, imitating a BFF with jokes, self-help tips, and makeovers. It’s not so easy, though. The daytime audience is impatient and fickle, with an appetite for sauce. Since Oprah’s rise, an army of A- and B-list personalities have tried to mimic her—Katie Couric, Anderson Cooper, and Megyn Kelly (anchors); Queen Latifah and Harry Connick Jr. (singers); Roseanne Barr, Tony Danza, Megan Mullally, and Fran Drescher (sitcom actors); Kris Jenner and Bethenny Frankel (reality stars)—only to fall flat on their coiffed heads.
But if you make it, the job is lucrative. Advertisers embrace successful daytime talk shows because they reach stay-at-home moms, who typically control their family budgets and watch the programs live, even the ads. As a result, Ellen DeGeneres, Dr. Phil, and Kelly Ripa earn multimillion-dollar salaries, in the same range as movie stars such as Jennifer Lawrence and Brad Pitt. Above them, there’s that short-tempered brunette with a gavel, Judith Sheindlin, who cashes a check for $47 million a year. Her courtroom series, Judge Judy, which started in 1996, isn’t really a talk show, but it plays like Jerry Springer meets Matlock, with wounded plaintiffs battling over unpaid dues and broken promises. “I would have been so happy if we had done three years, and I had enough money to buy a condo two blocks off the beach of Miami,” Sheindlin told me. “That was my dream.”
Sheindlin’s perch in daytime is so towering and profitable that she scoffed when she heard that Trump had been considering her for a vacancy to the US Supreme Court. “It must have been one of those moments when he wasn’t thinking,” Sheindlin said. “I have too good of a day job.”
Ladies Who Punch Page 1
