Mr Holborne: And as far as you were concerned, two imitation guns were to be taken on this robbery?
Witness: That’s right.
Mr Holborne: You’ve told us that you were responsible for obtaining them?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: So, you know where one can obtain such things?
Witness: Aye, I do. Lots of shops sell them.
Mr Holborne: What shop did you buy them from?
Witness: Er, I didnae buy them from a shop.
Mr Holborne: You got them from a man in a laundrette. That’s not likely to be a lawful source is it Mr Sands?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: That “unorthodox channel” is the sort of channel that could have provided you with a real gun, had you wanted one.
Witness: I don’t know. I didnae ask him.
Mr Holborne: If you were only after imitation guns, which you have told us can be bought legitimately from “lots of shops”, why did you get one from a man you met in a laundrette?
Witness: [pause] I don’t know.
Mr Holborne: It was not because you wanted a real gun, too, and that had to be obtained illegally?
Witness: No. I suppose I didnae want the police asking at shops an’ that.
Mr Holborne: Let’s move on. How did you feel about Mr Plumber’s having taken a real gun with him?
Witness: I’ve already said. I wouldnae have gone had I known.
Mr Holborne: You must have been furious with Plumber then, for taking the shotgun and for using it?
Judge: That’s two questions Mr Holborne. First, Mr Sands, were you furious that he had taken the shotgun?
Witness: If I’d known before we went, I wouldnae have been exactly furious, but not happy. I woulda told him to leave it behind.
Judge: Were you furious when he used it?
Witness: I couldnae believe what he’d done. He had no need to. Once the guy had seen the imitation, he woulda stopped. They’re no’ armed, those men. Aye, I was furious.
Mr Holborne: Why?
Witness: You ask me why? Jesus, the guy had been shot in the back. Robbery’s one thing. Murder, that’s something else altogether.
Mr Holborne: Your concern then was that you might be implicated in a murder that you had no part in?
Witness: Exactly.
Mr Holborne: Did you express that concern to Mr Plumber?
Witness: Well, I gave him a right bollocking in the car, but what could I do? He’d already shot the guy by the time I knew what was going on.
Mr Holborne: Where did you go immediately after the robbery?
Witness: To my flat.
Mr Holborne: What did you go there for?
Witness: To divvy up.
Mr Holborne: Did you go there directly?
Witness: We did. Well, we changed cars once on the way, and dumped the guns and balaclavas and that.
Mr Holborne: Where did you do that?
Witness: We left them locked in the car, and scrapped the car.
Mr Holborne: When you say “locked in the car”, it’s true is it not, that they were left hidden under the rear seat?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: And when you say “scrapped”, what do you mean?
Witness: A compacter. We sold the car tae a scrap metal dealer I know, and he agreed to squash it. He didnae do it, though. He got greedy.
Mr Holborne: I’m sorry?
Witness: Well, we paid him over the odds to squash it, but he obviously took a fancy to it, ’cos it was still in the yard when the police went there.
Mr Holborne: I see. And how did you get back to your flat from the scrap dealer?
Witness: In ma own car.
Mr Holborne: You scrapped the Rover before you went back to your flat?
Witness: Yes. I’ve already said.
Mr Holborne: Within minutes of the robbery?
Witness: Within half an hour.
Mr Holborne: And the reason you did that, I assume, was because you didn’t want to risk being found in possession of incriminating evidence one moment longer than necessary.
Witness: You could say.
Mr Holborne: I do say, Mr Sands. What do you say?
Witness: Well, if you like. It’s just common sense. I didnae want tae be connected to any of it.
Mr Holborne: Indeed. The one item of evidence that you would have been most concerned to get away from would have been the shotgun. Everything else ties you to a robbery. The shotgun ties you to a murder.
Witness: Well?
Mr Holborne: So the item you’d want to get rid of most, is the shotgun. [Pause.] Isn’t that right, Mr Sands?
Witness: I suppose so.
Mr Holborne: We know from the police evidence that they recovered the car, as you say, before it was compacted.
Witness: So?
Mr Holborne: They found the two imitation handguns, two masks, and some pairs of handcuffs, but no shotgun. What did you do with it?
Witness: I didnae do anything wi’ it. Plumber had it. I never touched the thing.
Mr Holborne: So you placed the other items under the seat?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: And locked up?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: But you did not put the shotgun there, too?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: Why not, Mr Sands?
Witness: It wasnae mine.
Mr Holborne: But you have just told the jury that the thing you most wanted to distance yourself from was that shotgun. There you are getting rid of all the other evidence, but you keep the most incriminating item, the shotgun. Why?
Witness: I told you, I didnae keep the shotgun. Plumber had it.
Mr Holborne: And you let him bring it into your car, driving with it to your flat, when you wanted it nowhere near you? You couldn’t have wanted to distance yourself that much from it: you let him hang onto it and travel around with it in your car!
Judge: I think counsel’s asking you a question, Mr Sands, although he’s not phrased it as such. Why did you permit Plumber to bring the shotgun with him in your car?
Witness: I don’t know. I just did.
Mr Holborne: What happened when you arrived at your flat?
Witness: We divvied up the money.
Mr Holborne: That must have taken some time, counting out and dividing £138,000.
Witness: Maybe.
Mr Holborne: How long?
Witness: I don’t know; a coupla hours maybe.
Mr Holborne: And you let Plumber leave the shotgun in your car all that time?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: In your flat then?
Witness: [pause] I cannae remember what happened to it.
Mr Holborne: From when do you not remember?
Witness: I don’t know. I’m not even sure I saw it in the car at all. Maybe he did leave it at the scrapyard, but someone found it.
Judge: Mr Sands, in answer to a question from me, not two minutes ago, you said you didn’t know why you let Plumber bring the shotgun in your own car. So you must remember seeing it at that stage.
Witness: I must remember it then, yes.
Mr Holborne: So you remember it in your car. Why did you not tell Mr Plumber to get rid of it at the scrapyard?
Witness: I didnae think to. I must have been in too much of a panic.
Mr Holborne: Yes, but your panic was because of the shotgun. Are you really telling this jury that although you wanted nothing to do with the shotgun, and having had the opportunity to get rid of it with all the other incriminating evidence, you allowed Mr Plumber to bring it into your car and your flat?
Witness: I don’t know. I suppose so.
Mr Holborne: Thank you. Now, Mr Sands, when you were first arrested for the offence of robbery, you were interviewed under caution, were you not?
Witness: Aye, I was.
Mr Holborne: During the course of that interview, you are recorded as having said there was a third man on the robbery, a
nd that it was he who took and used the shotgun.
Witness: I said that, aye.
Mr Holborne: That was a lie, wasn’t it?
Witness: It was, but I only said it because he threatened me if I didnae.
Judge: You pointed at the defendant. Are you saying that Plumber threatened you?
Witness: I am. Well, ma family.
Mr Holborne: When did he make this threat?
Witness: On the telephone, the day after the robbery.
Mr Holborne: And what, exactly, did he say?
Witness: He said that he reckoned we might be caught, and that if we were, we should both give the same story, about the third man.
Mr Holborne: Did you agree to this plan?
Witness: No’ at first. Only after he made the threats. He said that if I didnae agree, he would see to ma family.
Mr Holborne: He wasn’t going to see to you personally?
Witness: You gotta be joking. Him?
Mr Holborne: I take it that you are not personally afraid of Mr Plumber?
Witness: Correct.
Mr Holborne: Exactly what members of your family did he refer to?
Witness: He didnae say.
Mr Holborne: Does he know your family?
Witness: I don’t know.
Mr Holborne: Well, what family do you have?
Witness: I’ve got a mother.
Mr Holborne: Is that all?
Witness: Eh ... I got an uncle, too.
Mr Holborne: Where does your mother live?
Witness: I don’t know. I have nae kept in touch. She remarried a while back.
Mr Holborne: To whom?
Witness: Some chap. I cannae remember his name.
Mr Holborne: Where does your uncle live?
Witness: He used to live in a place called Helmsdale.
Mr Holborne: Where’s that?
Witness: The north-east coast of Scotland, about 100 miles north of Inverness.
Mr Holborne: Have you ever introduced Mr Plumber to your mother?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: To your uncle?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: So, to summarise: you neither know your mother’s married name nor her address, and your uncle used to live in the wilds of north eastern Scotland, but you don’t know where he lives now. Correct so far?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: Mr Plumber has met neither of them, and probably didn’t know that they existed?
Witness: Maybe.
Mr Holborne: And the threats were being made by a man of whom who you are not in the least frightened?
Witness: So?
Mr Holborne: You must’ve been quaking in your boots, Mr Sands. [Laughter.] I suggest that your evidence that Mr Plumber threatened your family is completely untrue. You have made it up.
Witness: No. It’s true.
Mr Holborne: I suggest that your evidence that he bullied you into saying there was a third man is also untrue. I suggest the bullying was the other way around. You threatened him.
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: Mr Sands, you have, I think, six convictions for robbery, do you not?
Witness: Maybe. I have nae counted.
Mr Holborne: Well, I have. In 1948 you robbed a Post Office in Croydon of six pounds, five shillings and four pence.
Witness: So?
Mr Holborne: The way you got the postmistress to hand the money over was to threaten her with a knife. After you came out of prison you were convicted in 1951 of three offences in which you robbed rent collectors in Sheffield. Is that right?
Witness: Yes. But I served my time. It’s got nothing to do with this.
Mr Holborne: I say it has everything to do with this. How did you get the rent collectors to hand over their money?
Witness: I dinnae know what you mean.
Mr Holborne: Oh, yes, you do, Mr Sands. You understand me full well. You made the rent collectors hand over their money by threatening them with physical violence. One with a knife and two with an unloaded ex-army revolver. Isn’t that right?
Witness: If you say so.
Mr Holborne: And during the last of those three offences, the rent collector, a Mr Thompson, gave evidence that you threatened to hurt his wife and baby if he didn’t comply.
Witness: I never said that! That’s a lie.
Mr Holborne: I have the sentencing remarks of the judge in front of me. He referred specifically to that as an aggravating feature when he sentenced you to prison. Lastly, in 1957 you were convicted of another robbery, were you not?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: On that occasion you didn’t threaten violence. Instead you bashed a security guard over the head and put him in hospital for three weeks. So, I suggest, Mr Sands, that you have no compunction whatsoever in threatening or using serious physical violence to get what you want.
Witness: And what about him?
Mr Holborne: Yes, I was about to come to Mr Plumber. It is quite true that Mr Plumber also has a long criminal record. A full list of his convictions has been agreed with the Crown, my Lord. It is agreed by the Crown that Mr Plumber has never been charged with any offence in which he personally used or threatened violence. His involvement in robberies has always been as a getaway driver.
Judge: Is that agreed, Mr Hogg?
Mr Hogg: It is, my Lord.
Mr Holborne: Now, Mr Sands, let’s change subject. In August this year, you had a visit in Brixton from Detective Inspector Wheatley, is that correct?
Witness: Yes.
Mr Holborne: You asked your solicitors to get in touch with him, and, as a result, he paid you a visit?
Witness: I don’t remember.
Mr Holborne: That’s his evidence. Do you disagree?
Witness: I suppose not.
Mr Holborne: And, at that visit, you told Inspector Wheatley that you had lied before about the third man, and that Plumber had carried the shotgun?
Witness: Aye.
Mr Holborne: You obviously felt by then that your dear lost mother was no longer in danger from Mr Plumber. [Laughter.]
Judge: That’s a comment, Mr Holborne, not a question.
Mr Holborne: I apologise, my Lord. Let me put it this way, Mr Sands: you tell us that you were forced into agreeing to making up the existence of a third man by Mr Plumber’s threats to your mother, but at some point you decided, despite that threat, to request a visit from DI Wheatley so you could tell him your present story. Correct so far?
Witness: Maybe.
Mr Holborne: Well, what part of what I have just said is wrong?
Witness: Nothing.
Mr Holborne: So the answer isn’t “Maybe”; the answer is “Yes”. So, what changed?
Witness: I thought about it some more and realised that that pansy would never actually do it.
Mr Holborne: I see. So, on reflection, you decided that Mr Plumber was not really the sort of man to carry out a violent attack on your family. Right?
Witness: Aye. I changed my mind.
Mr Holborne: Now, I want to ask you this: when you changed your story, did the Inspector believe you at first?
Mr Hogg: My Lord, I object to that question. It is of no relevance to the jury whether the inspector believed this witness or not; the question is, do the jury believe him?
Judge: That’s right, isn’t it, Mr Holborne?
Mr Holborne: Put thus, my Lord, yes. But the purpose of the question is not to usurp the function of the jury. I wish to ask about the witness’s motives for discussing other matters at the same time.
Judge: You may certainly ask about other things spoken about, and Mr Sands’s motives, but not about how they affected the officer’s mind.
Mr Holborne: Very well. Mr Sands: in addition to telling Inspector Wheatley about what you say was Plumber’s role, you gave the officer other information, did you not?
Witness: I ... er ... I really don’t remember now. It was a couple of months ago.
Mr Holborne: Do try an
d assist the jury, Mr Sands. I’m sure you’ll remember if you think hard about it.
Witness: I cannae recall what we spoke about.
Mr Holborne: Let me refresh your memory, Mr Sands. You gave the police information about other crimes, didn’t you?
Witness: I don’t know.
Mr Holborne: You informed on a number of your friends.
[Disturbance in the gallery. Shouting at the witness.]
Judge: If this noise does not cease immediately, I shall clear the court!
Mr Holborne: You turned grass, didn’t you, Mr Sands?
Witness: No, I never!
Mr Holborne: Do you wish me to call Inspector Wheatley to prove that that’s a lie?
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: Then the truth please, Mr Sands. You informed on a number of your criminal friends, did you not?
Witness: I … I was helping the police with their enquiries.
[Continued disturbance in gallery]
Judge: Master at arms, take those men out! Any further person making noise from the gallery will be committed for contempt forthwith! Carry on, Mr Holborne.
Mr Holborne: The reason you informed on your colleagues was so the Inspector would believe you. You wanted him to believe that Plumber, and not you, used the shotgun, isn’t that right? [Pause.] Do you intend answering that question? [Pause.] May I take it that you have no answer? [Pause.] Very well. As a result of the information you gave to the police, you hoped to receive a lighter sentence for the robbery, didn’t you?
Witness: I don’t know.
Mr Holborne: Of course you know! By giving information to the police did you hope to receive a lighter sentence or not?
Witness: Well, I thought if I scratched his back…
Mr Holborne: Exactly. And having been originally charged with murder, as was Mr Plumber, the charge was dropped against you.
Witness: Aye, it was.
Mr Holborne: I suggest to you, Mr Sands, that in giving evidence to this jury you are not in the slightest motivated to tell the truth.
Witness: I am telling the truth.
Mr Holborne: I suggest that your sole motive was to escape conviction for murder yourself, and if that meant dropping Plumber and all your other mates in it, then so be it.
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: You were the one with the gun, Mr Sands.
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: You threatened Mr Plumber into saying there was a third man who carried the gun.
Witness: No.
Mr Holborne: You then turned Queen’s Evidence to avoid a murder charge, and falsely accused Mr Plumber of carrying the gun.
The Brief: Crime and corruption in 1960s London (Charles Holborne Legal Thrillers) Page 8
