Devlok With Devdutt Pattanaik

by Devdutt Pattanaik

  I read in your book that Karna went to Naraka. Why so?

  The ending of the Mahabharata is interesting. The Pandavas go to hell and the Kauravas go to heaven. But Karna does not. He stays in hell. Those who operated within the bounds of their jati-dharma (caste dharma) in Kurukshetra go to heaven. The Kauravas, as Kshatriyas, stayed true to their jati-dharma, and went to heaven. Karna behaved like a Kshatriya although he was a sarathi. Here, the question of caste comes up again.

  Another reason is his breaking his promise to Duryodhana that he would kill the Pandavas. But even though he gets opportunities to kill Yudhishtira, Bhima, Nakula and Sahadeva, he does not use them because of his promise to Kunti. He does not keep his word to Duryodhana, and so goes to hell.

  14

  Years in Exile

  Why were the Pandavas sent into exile (vanavas)?

  The Pandavas bet their kingdom, Indraprastha, in a game of dice and lose. The agreement is that in the thirteen years of their exile in the forest, the Kauravas would rule that kingdom. Of the thirteen years, they were to live twelve years in vanavas and one year in agyatvas (in disguise). And if they were recognized and found out in the thirteenth year they would have to go back into exile for another thirteen years.

  What did these princes, so used to the luxuries of royal life, do in the forest for so many years?

  The Pandavas talk to Krishna and tell him that they could wage war right away and get their kingdom back, instead of going into exile. But Krishna cautions them against that and says they must keep their word, having entered into an agreement. When they wonder what they’ll do, Krishna advises them to meet all the rishis in the forest one by one and turn this into an opportunity to expand their knowledge. Learn from the aranyakas (books written by rishis in forests) about the Upanishads, the sadhana (meditation) of the rishis, and so on. All that knowledge would help them become better kings on returning from exile. So they meet rishis who impart their knowledge and tell them stories, go on tirth yatras (pilgrimages), travel to the mountains and across rivers. The third chapter of the Mahabharata is the Vana Parva, literally, the forest of stories, where they are told innumerable stories. This is the core of vanaprastha—kahani, gyan, tirth yatra.

  What did Bhima learn in agyatvas?

  Bhima is a strong and capable prince, but he is also proud and arrogant. He needed to learn humility. Many incidents take place in the jungle that teach him the value of humility. Once, Draupadi sees a golden-petalled lotus and brightens up for the first time after the vastraharan; she’s been angry and upset ever since. Seeing her happy, Bhima offers to bring her more such flowers. He decides that no one will come in his way, and that he will not go around anything; they will have to move aside because he is a prince. He meets Hanuman, who is lying on the ground disguised as an old monkey. Hanuman says he’s too old to move and asks Bhima to go around him or move his tail aside. Bhima kicks his tail but it does not budge; he tries to move it with his hands, but no matter how hard he tries it feels like something made of the heaviest iron. This is a famous story, and in the ensuing dialogue, Hanuman tells him that this very conceit is what caused him to lose his kingdom and that he’ll have to learn about humility in the jungle.

  What is Arjuna’s story?

  Arjuna is very upset about losing his kingdom, having to suffer his wife’s humiliation. He is frustrated and impatient because Krishna has forbidden them to go to war. He does a tapasya to obtain a weapon—the Pashupatastra—from Shiva. While he’s meditating, Shiva comes to him as Kirat, a tribal. Arjuna treats him like an inferior person. Kirat tells him that he may have been a prince in his palace, but in the jungle, he was like everyone else; they were equal. Arjuna doesn’t agree and they have an archery contest in which he is defeated. Like Bhima, Arjuna too is taught a lesson in humility. Unlike most stories where the hero is shown as being perfect, the Mahabharata shows their flaws.

  Then Arjuna goes to heaven to meet his father Indra. There a beautiful apsara named Urvashi sees him and is attracted to him. When Arjuna turns her down saying she was the wife of his ancestor, Pururava, and therefore like a mother to him, she tells him that his human rules don’t apply to her. He still refuses her, so she curses him and says that he’ll become a napunsak (eunuch). Scared, Arjuna runs to Indra who says he can only mitigate the curse by making it applicable for just one year, and suggests that he use it to his advantage during the agyatvas.

  Arjuna is portrayed as something of a ladies’ man, a womanizer. This incident perhaps takes place to make him question his masculinity. He pursues women, but has he tried to understand their needs, seen the world from their point of view? When he lives like half a woman for a year, without his masculinity, he’ll be able to see the world from their perspective. Again, this is to teach him humility, a kind of mental retraining so that he’ll become a better king when he returns.

  What is Yudhishtira’s story?

  The Pandavas meet many rishis in the forest, including Mudgala and Markandeya. When Yudhishtira is moping about the injustice of having to suffer vanavas, Rishi Markandeya asks him why he’s sulking when it was he who brought this hardship upon his family and himself. The rishi then tells him the story of the Ramayana, called Ramopokhyan, and how Rama, though completely blameless, happily chose vanavas only to help his father keep his word.

  This is another story where the Ramayana and Mahabharata intersect.

  Yes, this is told as history to the Pandavas. The events of the Ramayana take place in an earlier epoch, the Treta Yuga, and those of the Mahabharata in the Dvapara Yuga. The story is important to compare their respective vanavas. Their reasons, attitude, approach are different. Rama is forced into exile for fourteen years although he is innocent, unlike the Pandavas who are not innocent, have lost in gambling, and go to vanavas for thirteen years. The Pandavas keep complaining about it, thinking of ways to hurt the Kauravas, whereas Rama accepts it gracefully. Rama in Ayodhya and Rama in the forest are the same—at peace—that is why Rama is god and the Pandavas are not.

  There is another interesting, very famous, story about Yudhishtira, Nakula and Sahadeva. It’s called Yaksha Prashna. Once the Pandavas feel extremely thirsty, so they ask Nakula and Sahadeva to look for water. When, even after a long time, they don’t return Arjuna goes in search of them. He too does not return. Then Bhima goes to look for them and does not return either. Finally, Yudhishtira goes and finds his brothers lying dead near a lake. Since he is really thirsty, he decides to first drink some water and then investigate what has happened to his brothers. A crane in the lake stops him and says, ‘You have to answer my questions before drinking the water. Your brothers did not obey me, so I killed them.’ Yudhishtira agrees.

  The crane asks him, ‘What is the most mysterious thing in the world?’ Yudhishtira replies that although people die every day, those who are alive behave as if they are immortal. The crane, which is a yaksha, asks him many such questions after which it is satisfied and allows him to drink the water. Happy with Yudhishtira’s answers, the crane offers to bring back to life any one of his brothers. Yudhishtira asks for Nakula. The crane is surprised by this choice and reminds him that he has a battle to win. Why not choose the strong Bhima or the archery expert (dhanurdhar) Arjuna? Why Nakula, who is just handsome, talks to birds, and is perhaps of no use? Yudhishtira says that his father had two wives. He, a son of Kunti, is alive. One of Madri’s sons should also live. Here, you see the transformation that has come about in Yudhishtira. In the Sabha Parva, when they are gambling, Yudhishtira first bets Nakula (a son of Madri)—the brother who is least close to him. He considered Bhima and Arjuna apne (his own) and Nakula and Sahadeva paraye (someone else’s). The realization that a king must consider even the distant ones as his own comes to him in the jungle. This shows that he is ready to become king.

  What does Draupadi learn?

  Draupadi hears many stories in the jungle. One is of Nala and Damayanti. Nala is a handsome, worthy king and, like the Pandavas, gambles awa
y his kingdom. Depressed, he goes to the jungle; his wife accompanies him. He is so miserable that he runs away from his wife. Left alone in the forest, Damayanti learns to survive, but does not abandon her husband. She believes he will return and keeps looking for him. Finally she finds him, a broken man. This story teaches Draupadi that her support is necessary for her husbands’ survival. They were drowning and she is the boat due to which they survive. The wife is given a lot of importance in the Vana Parva. She is the solution, the support, without whom the men can do nothing. Damayanti is strong and supports a husband who is a weakling. She faces terrible situations with equanimity. She even has to become a dasi (servant), under the name Sairandhri, a name that Draupadi also takes later. Damayanti becomes a role model for Draupadi.

  What happens in agyatvas, the last year of the exile?

  It’s interesting from a psychological point of view. The Ramayana and the Mahabharata are stories of kings and queens, and of rishis, where servants are always in the background, almost invisible. In the final year of their exile, the Pandavas assume the roles of servants. For the first time they experience what it’s like to be servants (sevaks). Bhima becomes a cook. Someone who loves food has to serve everyone else before eating. He has to learn to attend to others first. Arjuna who was a handsome archer and womanizer becomes a eunuch, Brihannala, and teaches girls how to dance. Nakula and Sahadeva become caretakers of cows and horses. Draupadi becomes a ladies’ maid, a hairdresser. Someone who was a patrani now has to do up another queen’s hair.

  Yudhishtira’s tale is very entertaining. He is known for and takes pride in always being honest. He comes as a Brahmin and becomes the king’s companion. The king loves to gamble and Yudhishtira plays with him. He also gives the king good advice. Once, the king proudly tells Yudhishtira how his son, Prince Uttar, defeated the Kauravas in battle. Yudhishtira says that perhaps Brihannala, who had accompanied the prince, supported him. He knows that the young Uttar cannot possibly have done it on his own, and Arjuna as Brihannala must have helped him. The king reiterates that it was his son, and again Yudhishtira insists on taking Brihannala’s name. The king insists it was Uttar, and when Yudhishtira is about to repeat his statement, the king slaps him, saying, ‘Will you not allow me the pleasure of this little lie? Why do you have to be such a stickler for the truth? Do I not know that my son is not capable of defeating the Kauravas?’ Yudhishtira learns then that servants are not free to speak the truth. He understands what is called sabhachaturya (tactfulness in court); in the presence of a king or authority figure, you cannot speak the truth.

  In those days, there must have been no farming in the forests where the Pandavas lived. What did they eat? Did they hunt?

  These days people become very anxious, and hark back to ‘those ancient times’ when, apparently, non-vegetarian food wasn’t consumed. The Pandavas were Kshatriyas, and they hunted and ate all kinds of food. According to one story, they were so bored and tired of listening to stories and doing tirth yatras that they started hunting a lot. Once, Yudhishtira dreams of a herd of deer who tell him to go away from there, because their numbers are dwindling; they will become extinct if the brothers continue to hunt this way. It’s a message of ecological/environmental concern conveyed through this story.

  15

  Vedic Gods and Goddesses

  I’ve heard that there were thirty-three gods and goddesses in Vedic times.

  The number thirty-three is used often. In fact, it’s also used in Buddhist mythology. It is said that Indra sits in heaven which has thirty-three gods and goddesses. So the number thirty-three is important. Here, there are twelve Adityas; this comes from the word Aditi, and is the name of the gods, and of the sun. Then there are eight Vasus associated with earth, and eleven Maruts who are associated with Vayu, with storms. Maruti is one of Hanuman’s names, and Vayu is Hanuman’s father. Then there are two Ashvini Kumars—in the Mahabharata they are the fathers of Nakula and Sahadeva. These are the thirty-three gods—some we are familiar with, some we are not. These gods are usually invoked (avahan). The Adityas—sun, Vasus—earth, Maruts—wind, Ashvini Kumars—morning and evening stars.

  Who are these thirty-three gods?

  In Vedic times, 3000 to 4000 years ago, people performed yagnas which did not have an idol (nirakaar). Gods and goddesses were described in words, through mantras, but they had no form. The Vedas talk of three worlds—Bhu-loka (earth), Swarga-loka or the sky (the celestial realm) that has stars, planets, galaxies, and the space in between these is Antariksh or atmosphere. So probably these are gods of nature. The most popular Vedic god is Indra. Second is Agni, then Som (associated with plants, vanaspati, and the juice therein, soma rasa), Vayu, Mitra, Varun, etc.

  Any goddesses?

  There are goddesses, but very few. There is Usha—dawn, Prithvi—earth, Aranyani—forest, Aditi—mother of the devas, Vagadevi—associated with speech and language (like Saraswati). Vedas place a lot of importance on language. In fact, Vedang refers to etymology (nirukth), grammar (vyakaran), metre (chhand). These are all parts of language which people associate with Saraswati, although Saraswati is mentioned as a river in the Vedas. Some scholars believe that to be a metaphor for the ‘river of knowledge’.

  In texts called Brahmanas, where yagnas are described, you’ll find many stories. One such refers to the rakshasi Dirghajeevi who has a long tongue and steals the soma rasa from the gods. People say that perhaps this same Dirghajeevi became Kali over time. This is all speculation of course.

  Do the gods mentioned in the Puranas find a different shape and form in the Vedas?

  They don’t have a form at all in the Vedas. They are nirakaar. There are many descriptions: they are strong, powerful, etc. In the Puranas, we form an image of Shiva as digambara (sky-clad), ash-smeared, wearing elephant skin; Vishnu wears pitambar (saffron robes), is smeared with chandan, and wears a vyjayantimala (marigold garland). These visual cues are absent in the Vedas. It’s all abstract in the Vedas, whereas in the Puranas, it’s concrete, refers to form and has stories. In the Vedas, characters, rather than stories, are important. You can say the Vedas are the seed and the Puranas, the fruit; the seed gives rise to the tree which bears the fruit. The distance between the seed and fruit is the distance between the Vedic and Puranic gods and goddesses.

  Who are the most famous gods of the Vedas?

  There are 1000 poems in the Vedas called Sukta. Of these, a quarter are devoted to Indra, described as great, brave, virile, one who solves problems, goes to war, kills vrit (snake), brings rains, releases water, frees cows. However, in the Puranas, he is Brahma’s son, insecure, always afraid that someone—rakshasa or asura—will steal his wealth, or that some rishi will take away his position by doing tapasya. He is envious of kings too, and lives hedonistically among the apsaras. So he is not worshipped, there are no temples devoted to him. But in the Vedas, it was his name that was always chanted in mantra after mantra. So it’s a big shift that occurred between the two ages.

  Isn’t there any Indra story in the Vedas?

  There are some but not as many as in the Puranas. There’s one famous story. A woman called Apala develops a skin disease that makes her look ugly. Her husband orders her to return to her parents since he cannot bear the sight of her any more. As she is walking through the forest, she breaks off some twigs and stops to chew on one. A man appears and asks whether it’s from a soma tree and what the juice is like. When she says it’s good, he asks her where she found the tree. She offers to take him there. On the way, when he asks her if she knows who he is, she says that she’s heard Indra deva likes soma rasa a lot so he must be him. She then tells him that despite her father’s reverence and sacrifices to Indra, there had not been a drop of rain in their fields. When they reach the soma tree, Indra helps himself to soma rasa and is pleased. He tells her that from the next day, her father’s farm will not be dry; then he cures her disease and disappears. This story tells of Indra’s great fondness for soma rasa, so much so that even if
you accidentally find it, Indra shows up.

  In Puranic times, gradually the word becomes a god’s name. So even if you accidentally take his name, all your sins will be forgiven. There’s the story of Ajmil, a gambler, who angrily calls his son whose name is Narayan. Just by uttering a god’s name, he is freed of his sins and is admitted to Vaikuntha. Accidental fortune, one can say. Apala, Ajmil, both find accidental fortune. The Vedic story is presented in another form in the Puranas. The basic bhav or arth, called nirguni—the meaning, is the same in both. The body (shareer) has changed, but the atma is the same.

  In the Puranas, Varuna is the god of the oceans. Is he the same in the Vedas?

  In the Puranas, he is the god of the oceans; he is also Lakshmi’s father and is associated with generosity. In the Vedas, the gods Varuna and Mitra are associated with morality. Varuna has many eyes with which he sees the world from all sides; observing whether everyone is working properly or not. Mitra is the god of contracts, associated with ethics, relationships, whether friendly or official. Mitra was a famous god in Europe and was associated with the sun. Idols have been found, as far back as ancient Roman times, of Mitra sacrificing a bull. Apparently, such was his importance at one time in the Roman Empire that if Christianity had not happened, Mitra would have been as popular as Christ. Christianity gives importance to Sunday which is Mitra’s day, since he is associated with the sun. These relationships with the sun found in the Vedas are found in Europe too. So there was some connection between the two 4000 years ago.