Tang Taizong said with a smile: “You can even use the help of foreign people. There is an ancient saying, ‘Use the barbarians to control barbarians, China has been like this since the ancient times.’ I see you understand this principle now.”
太宗说：最近契丹、奚两个部落都来归顺，我已设置松漠、饶乐二都督，使其隶属于安北都护，我想任用薜万彻担任都护之职，你的意见怎样？
李 靖答：薛万彻的才能不如阿史那社尔、执失思力和契苾何力，这三人都是番臣中懂得军事的。因为我曾经同他们谈论过松漠、饶乐的山川形势、道路状况和番人顺逆 的情况，甚至达到西域的十数个部落，他们谈起来都是清楚可信。我教他们阵法，无不点头佩服，希望陛下任用他们不要怀疑。薛万彻有勇无谋，难以独自胜任。
太宗笑着说：番人都能为你所用。古人说：”以蛮夷制蛮夷，中国历来是这样的。”你已经懂得这个道理了。
Part 2
Question 2.1
Tang Taizong said: “Among all the military books I have read, so far not a single one of them could exceed Sun Tzu’s ‘The Art of War’; even if the thirteen chapters of Sun Tzu do not go beyond the scope of discussing weak points and strengths. When we have come to the state of being at war, we could win endless victories if we are capable of recognizing our enemies’ weak points and their strengths. Nowadays our generals could only drone about ‘avoiding the enemy’s strength and attack their weak points’; however when they are facing the actual situation, only very few of them are capable of identifying the enemy’s weakness. The underlying factor causing such a situation is because they are incapable of affecting their enemies; instead they are very much affected by their enemies. What do you think about this situation? You could also explain the essential points on how to identify our enemies’ strengths and weaknesses.”
Li Jing answered: “We start with teaching them how to deal with the changes of indirect and direct methods in military strategy; next we should teach them how to identify the strengths and weaknesses of enemies. Then their understanding would improve. At this time, our generals could not understand the difference between direct and indirect strategies; therefore, they are not able to understand the principle: an enemy’s strengths are also their weaknesses and vice versa.
Tang Taizong asked: “By analyzing the situation of our enemy, we could truly understand the motives, strengths and weaknesses of our enemy. Agitating and putting our enemy in an emotional state will help us understand their patterns of movement. By means of using reconnaissance, we would have a better understanding about which type of terrain is more favorable or unfavorable for our enemy. Launching probing attacks against our enemy could help us gain an understanding about their strengths and weaknesses. Is this our direct and indirect methods toward understanding our enemy’s strengths and weaknesses?”
Li Jing answered: “What we call indirect and direct methods are used to cope with our enemy’s strengths and weaknesses. If our enemy is strong, we will use the frontal advance to fight against them. On the contrary, if they are weak, we should use a surprise attack to deal with them. If the generals could not understand the rule of varying these two strategies, they won’t be able to conquer our enemy, even if they understand the enemy’s strengths and weaknesses. After receiving their orders, our generals should truly understand the art of varying these two methods, and how to combine direct and indirect methods. Then they will naturally understand the strengths and weaknesses of the enemies they are facing.
Tang Taizong said: “When I change from using the direct method to using the indirect method, the enemy will wrongly think that I am still using the direct method, and they will launch an attack using an indirect method. When I change to using a direct method, the enemy will think that I am still using the indirect method; but I will launch an attack by using a direct method instead. Following these varying rules, we could place our enemy into a disadvantageous situation, and secure ourselves into a favorable situation. You should teach these ways to all of our generals, so that they can easily understand this principle.”
Li Jing said: “Even thousands and thousands of words could not exceed Sun Tzu’s saying, ‘I impose my will on the enemy, but do not allow the enemy’s will to be imposed on me.’ I will keep this spirit in mind and let it become the core of my teachings to the generals.”
太宗说：我看过的各种兵书中，没有超过《孙子兵法》的，《孙子》十三篇，没有超出虚实的范围。用兵作战，如果能认识到虚实的形势，就能无往而不胜利。现在的将领中，只能空谈”避实击虚”，到了临敌作战的时候，则又很少能识破敌人虚实的，这是由子他们不能左右敌人，而反为敌人所左右的原故， 你以为怎样？你尽可能为诸将讲解一下认识虚实的要领。
李靖答：先教他们奇正相互变化的方法，然后再讲如何认识虚实的形势就可以了。现在诸将领多数不知以奇为正以正为奇的变化，又怎能认识到敌人的虚是实，实是虚呢!
太宗问：分析敌情，就会知道敌人的利害得失；激动敌人。就会知道敌人动静的规律；使用各神侦察手段就会知道敌人所处的地形哪里有利或不利；对敌试探攻击，就合知道故人的强处和弱处。这就是以我的奇正察知敌人虚实的方法吗？
李靖答：所谓奇正，是用以对付敌人虚实的。敌强，我就用正兵；敌弱，我就用奇兵。如果将帅不知奇正的变化，就是知道敌人的虚实，又怎能战胜敌人呢！我奉命后，只要先教诸将学会奇正的用，然后他们对于敌人的虚实自然就知道了。
太宗说：我把奇兵变为正兵使用时，敌人还以为我是奇兵，而却以正兵打击它；我把正兵变为奇兵使用时，敌人还以为我是正兵，而我却以奇兵打击它。这样就能使敌人经常处于不利的态势，自己常处于有利的态势。你应以此法传授给各将领，使他们容易明由。
李靖说：千章万句，不外乎《孙子》说的”我能左右敌人，而不为敌人所左右”罢了，我当本着这种精神教育诸将。
Question 2.2
Tang Taizong asked (after conquering Gaochang): “I had assigned a Jade Pool captaincy to follow the orders of the An Xi protectorate, but the native soldiers there have different customs from the Han soldiers and could not cope with the changes. In your opinion what arrangement should be made?”[26]
Li Jing answered: “All humans should be the same; supposedly there are no differences between the foreigners and Han’s people. But these foreigners live in a remote desert area on the border; they have to hunt for a living, therefore they are used to fighting. If we could comfort them with kindness and provide them sufficient living necessities, then we could use their help, just like we used the Han. Considering that Your Majesty has already established the An Xi protectorate, I propose that we should withdraw the army from the borders, back to the mainland. This could help in reducing the transportation of food supplies; this is the way to maintain our combat forces in military maneuvers. Meanwhile, we have to choose someone who is familiar with the situation of these foreigners, among our Han officials, to guard every checkpoint outside the mainland, to ensure that everything is secure and in order. If there is an emergency at the border, we immediately send our Han soldiers for aid.”
Tang Taizong asked: “What is the way to maintain combat capability according to Sun Tzu?”
Li Jing answered: “‘Use the army that is near to the battlefield to fight with the enemy that has traveled far; use the army that could leisurely prepare, and awaits their enemy, to fight the tired enemy; use the well-supplied army to fight with the starving enemy.’ This is roughly the way, according to Sun Tzu. Those who are skillful in military traps further extend these three meaning into six strategies. These include: entice the enemy into coming to invade our territory; use calmness to deal with the impetuous enemy; treat the rash enemy sedately; use rigor
to deal with the slack enemy; use orders and formations to deal with chaos; and use defense to deal with the enemy’s offensive attack. If we do not follow these ways, our combat capability cannot be unleashed. Therefore, how could we beat our enemy, if we do not preserve our combat power?”
Tang Taizong said: “Nowadays, the people that study Sun Tzu’s ‘Art of War’ can only recite the provisions of it; very few of them could apply it to actual situations. These ways of preserving our combat power should be widely spread to our generals.”
太宗问:[灭高昌以后，]我设置瑶池都督使隶于安西都护，但那里的番兵和汉兵[习性不同]，你看应如何处置？
李 靖答：天之生人，本无番汉之别，但番人居住于边远荒漠的地方，必须以打猎为生，因此常常习惯于战斗。我若以恩信抚慰他们，以衣食周济他们，就能使他们象汉 人一样为我所用了。陛下既设立了安西都护，我建议将驻守边境的汉兵撤至内地，以减少粮食的补给运输，这就是兵家所说的保特战斗力的方法。同时在汉族官吏 中，选择熟悉番人情况的，使其散守塞外各城堡，这样就可以长久无急。一旦边境有事，就派遣汉兵出塞应援。
太宗问：《孙子》所说保待战斗力的方法如何？
李靖答：”以 靠近战场的军队对待远来的敌人，以从容休整的军队对待疲劳的敌人，以补给充裕的军队对待饥饿的敌人”，这是《孙予》所说的大概含义。善于用兵的人，从这三 种含义引申为六种办法，那就是：以诱诈对待来犯的敌人，以冷静对待急躁的敌人，以稳重对待轻率的敌人，以严谨对待懈怠的敌人，以整齐对待混乱的人，以防守 对待进攻的敌人。不这样，战斗力就不能发挥。[如此看来，]不采取保持战斗力的方法，怎能临敌制胜呢!
太宗说：现在学习《孙子兵法》的人，只能背诵条文，很少能解其精神实质而有所发挥的。这种保持战斗力的方法，你应当普遍知诸将。
Question 2.3
Tang Taizong asked: “There are not many experienced old soldiers left and the existing army is now newly established, and without any prior war experience; which type of training should we give them?”
Li Jing answered: “Usually I will divide the army into three stages. First, group five people to train them with the Wu method; after they have learned the method, send them for training in military schools. This is another stage. The method used in military schools is that once they have been trained successfully under a Wu (a five person group), they will be trained ten times under a Wu, and next they will be trained 100 times under a Wu. This will be another stage. After that, they will be trained by the lieutenant. The lieutenant will combine all the battle formations in the military schools and train them; this is yet another stage. When the army has completed all three stages, the general would hold a major examination: examine the various systems, dividing the army for frontal advance and surprise attack, warn the soldiers, and give punishment to those who violate the military orders. The last stage will be Your Majesty examining the army from the top, according to your preference.”
太宗问：有作战经验的旧将老卒剩下的不多了，现有的军队是成立的，没有经过战斗，如今训练应该采取什么办法才好？
李 靖答：我以往训练军队分为三个阶段。先以五人编为一位进伍法的训练，伍法学成后，交由军校训练，这是一个阶投。军校训的方法，是一伍学成以后再教十伍，十 伍学成以后再教百伍，这又是一个阶段。以后再交由副将刘练，副将乃总合各军校的队伍进行阵法的训练，这又是一个阶段。大将军看到这三个阶段的教练完成以 后，于是进行大阅，检查各种制度，区别奇兵和正兵，告戒将士，对违犯军令的给以处罚。然后陛下登高检阅，无论怎样指挥都是可以的。
Question 2.4
Tang Taizong asked: “There are several types of arrangements of Wu from the ancients, which of these are the main ones?”
Li Jing answered: “According to “Chun Qiu Zuo Shi Zhuan” (Chronicle of Zuo)[27], the method is, ‘First we compile and next we train in Wu’. The ‘Methods of Sima’ mentioned to ‘Group five soldiers into a Wu.’ Wei Liaozi said, ‘Bundle the Wu order.’ In the Han dynasty, there was the ‘Chi Ji Wu Fu’ system (a system that records the military orders, the achievements and credits of the soldiers, and the codes that must be followed for each members in a Wu). Later, the books of these codes were written on paper; however this system was gradually lost. After I studied these theories, I thought that we should start with a group of five soldiers, gradually increase them into a group of twenty five, and from twenty five, increase to seventy five. This is the compilation system in Chun Qiu, where a platoon consists of seventy two infantry and three armored soldiers. If we don’t use the platoons and choose to use cavalry, then twenty five infantry could be used as eight cavalry. This calculation is according to the method of ‘Wu Bing Wu Dang’ on the use of platoons, infantry and cavalry. Therefore every type of military strategy is all based on the method of Wu. If you choose to use infantry, you can arrange them into ‘small columns’ of five people, ‘big columns’ of twenty five people. If we arrange three ‘big columns’, there will be a total of seventy five people. We multiply this by five and we get 375 people. 300 of them will be the infantry and the rest will be cavalry. Among the cavalry, 150 will be the left part, used in frontal advance. The rest become the right part. Among the sixty cavalry, each left and right will have thirty cavalry to be used for the surprise attack. When we are launching an attack, our forces on both sides will be equal. I still use the approach of ‘Five people as a Wu and ten times a Wu will be a team’ according to Sima Rangju; these are the basics of the Wu theory.”
太宗问：伍的编纽方法古人有数家，哪家是主要的？
李靖答：据《春秋左氏传》说，”先 偏后伍”；《司马法》说，”五人为伍”；《尉缭子》有”束伍令”；汉朝有”尺籍位符”的制度。后世的符籍是用纸写的，于是这种制度就逐渐失传了。我参考这 些说法后，认为：由五人逐渐变为二十五人，又由二十五人变为七十五人，这就是春秋时一求战车有步卒七十二人和甲士三人的编制。若不用战车而用骑兵，则二十 五名步卒相当于八骑使用。这就是根据”五兵五当”运用在车、步、骑的办法。所以各家兵法，部是以伍法为基础的。[若舍车进行步战，可以]排成”小列”为五 人，排成”大列”为二。十五人，排成三个”大列”别为七十五人，再五倍之则为三百七十五人。〔除甲士十五人外，〕其余三百人为正，六十人为奇，[三百人 中]各以一百五十人为左右二正。[六十人中]各以三十人为左右二奇，前进时使左右兵力相等。司马穰苴所说五人为伍，十伍为队，我现在仍然沿用这种办法，这 就是伍法的大要。
Question 2.5
Tang Taizong asked: “When I discussed military strategies with Li Ze, what he said is basically quite similar to your approach; it’s just that he didn’t study the sources of them. The ‘Liu Hua Battle Formation’ that you have developed is based on what foundation?”
Li Jing answered: “My ‘Liu Hua Battle Formation’ was developed based on Zhuge Liang’s ‘Eight Tactical Formations’. Inside the big formation, there are small formations; inside the big camps there are small camps. The four sides and four corners are all inter-connected. The turning-points and cross-points are all symmetrical to each other. That is the ancient ‘Eight Tactical Formations’. My ‘Liu Hua Battle Formation’ is developed on that foundation: the outside (six arrays) will be arranged into a square shape, while the inside (one array) will be arranged into a round shape. The shape of it is similar to six braided flowers; therefore I named it ‘Liu Hua (six flowers) Battle Formation’.”
Tang Taizong asked: “What is the purpose of arranging the array at the outside into a square shape and the inside array into a round shape?”
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bsp; Li Jing answered: “The square formation is determined by the interval distance, measured by the count of steps; while the round formation is determined by the size of troops. The square formation is used to regulate the scope of movement of each team, while the round formation is for forming a seamless defense. Therefore, the count of steps of the square formation must be as fixed as the ground, and the round formation must cycle like the seamless cycling of the celestial stars. When the count of steps and the cycles can be done perfectly, we can achieve changes in the formation without being in disarray. From the ‘Eight Tactical Formation’ evolving into ‘Liu Hua Battle Formation’, it is still basically the old formation developed by Wu Hou.”
太宗问：处我与李责力谈论兵法，他所说的很多与你相同，只是李责力的没有考究出处罢了。你所制定的六花阵法是根据什么？
李靖答：我的六花阵法是根据诸葛亮的八阵法演变而成。大阵中包含小阵，大营之中包含小营，四方四角，相互连系，转弯和交叉的地方彼此对称，古八阵法就是这样的。我制定的阵图是仿效这种法，把外面[的六阵]画成方形，内面[的一阵]画成圆形。其形象六个花辩，所以称为六花阵。
太宗问：内面画成圆形，外面画成方形，是什么意思？
李 靖答：方阵是由间隔距离的步数决定的，圆阵是由中军兵力的大小决定的。方阵是用来规整各队行动范围的，圆阵是为了联成环无间的防御的。所以方阵的步数要象 大地一样的固定，圆阵的旋回象天体一样的循环无间，步数固定，旋回整齐，就可以变化而不乱。从八阵变为六花阵，仍然是武侯的旧法。
Question 2.6
Tang Taizong asked: “The outer square formation shows the advancing and retreating steps of soldiers, while the inner round formation indicates the range of weapons used. In order to achieve the most accurate pace, we have to train the flexibility of their feet; in order to achieve flexibility in using weapons, we have to train their hands. When the soldiers achieve a certain degree of flexibility in using their feet and hands, haven’t we figured out most of the ways the ancients used to battle?”
Military Strategy Classics of Ancient China Page 51
