Conversations With Tom Petty
Page 16
I was so stunned. I was stunned beyond belief. I’d never ever had anything like that happen.
Especially with such a great album.
Yeah, I thought it was incredible. They just didn’t hear it. I don’t know why, but they didn’t hear it. So it got put on the back burner because the Traveling Wilburys started to happen. It didn’t come out until after the Wilburys’ album. But it was actually done before the Wilburys. Which used to crack me up, because I saw some reviews that said it had the Traveling Wilburys’ sound. But the truth was that it was done before there was the Traveling Wilburys.
But it does share that palpable joy of the Traveling Wilburys’ albums.
There was a lot of joy around in those days. We were a happy bunch.
Who came up with the name the Traveling Wilburys?
George.
Did it appeal to you?
Yeah, I thought it was funny. He had come up with that concept when he was making Cloud Nine.
The concept of having you all together?
Of having a band called the Traveling Wilburys. George and Jeff had talked about that a lot when they were making Cloud Nine. George had the concept. He wanted to be in a band. He hadn’t been in a band since The Beatles.
That was a good band.
[Laughs] Yeah, they were good. He wanted to be in a band, but he wanted to avoid all those pitfalls that a band has. He didn’t want it to be so overtly serious that it became a chore. And he didn’t want to have a manager. He wanted it to be, above all, an enjoyable experience. But he was smart enough to know it wouldn’t be enjoyable if it wasn’t good. It had to be good.
The idea was to make the band with people he liked that were good. So I think I remember him talking about the Traveling Wilburys before there was a Traveling Wilburys. And I’m pretty sure that, at least in the back of his mind, he was trying to engineer this band together. He had come out of the garden after a long time and made a record. A really good one. I think he was kind of charged. The record had gone to Number One. I remember him coming over the day it went to Number One and he was really happy. And he wanted to keep playing music. And they were bringing out another single from Cloud Nine. And they needed a B-side for the release. And in those days he had a couple of guitars that he always kept at my house, so when he came to town he had guitars.
Acoustics?
I think one was a Gretsch electric. And maybe there was an acoustic too. And they’d be in my closet. When he came to town, he’d pick them up so he wouldn’t have to lug them back and forth on the airplanes. So I guess he had been out to dinner the night before with Jeff and Roy. And he got the idea that maybe you guys can help me make this B-side, this track I’ve got to do. And they were up for it. And he called Bob [Dylan] because Bob had a studio in his house, and he didn’t want to go to a commercial studio. And he also liked recording in houses better than studios. So he arranged to cut it at Bob’s house.
So he came by my house the night before to get his guitar. And he told me what he was going to do, and he asked, ‘Would you like to come and play rhythm guitar? Will you come with me?’
I said, ‘Of course I would. I wouldn’t miss that.’ So in the morning I remember he came in his car with Jeff and picked me up, and we drove out to Bob’s house in Malibu. And the night before he had written the chord pattern, pretty much, to “Handle With Care.” He wrote it in his room at the Bel-Air Hotel. So when we got there, Bob was there. And George kind of showed us the chord pattern.
And then he said, ‘It’d be great if we had a part for Roy to sing in the tune.’ He didn’t want to waste Roy Orbison. So I remember Jeff and George sitting on the grass outside Bob’s house and they wrote that middle bit: [Sings] “I’m so tired of being lonely…” They wrote the melody and the chords to that. No lyrics to any of it.
So we started from that. And George said to Bob and I, ‘You two think of a bit.’ Because he was like that when he would get energized. And so we came up with [sings] “Everybody needs somebody to lean on….” And we cut the track. We cut the track with just a rhythm box, and all of us playing acoustic guitar. There were five acoustic guitars all at once. And then George looked and saw a road case there, in Bob’s garage, that said, “Handle With Care.”
George went, ‘That’s good. It’ll be “Handle With Care.”’ So then we took a break and had some food. And while we were having dinner, we wrote the lyrics. Between all of us. It was the Wilbury way to say a line. And if everybody agreed it was, ‘Yay’ and if they didn’t it was, ‘Nay.’ And then we’d start throwing out lines till one stuck. So that became really good in a way because it takes a lot of guts to say a line. Especially in that company. But it was always a warm vibe, a good vibe, and there was laughter. It wasn’t overly serious. But it came out to be such a beautiful song, and there’s actually such a nice meaning in the lyric, I can’t imagine how it happened. [Laughs] Because it did. And we did nearly all of it that night. We did the vocals, and Jeff played the drums.
I always thought Roy wrote his section himself, because it fits his voice and style so well.
I think he wrote the lyric.
How about the lyric, “I’ve been robbed and ridiculed/In day care centers and night schools.” Who wrote that? I sounds Dylanesque.
I think I had the “day care centers and night schools.” But I know I had, “Ah, the sweet smell of success.” That pleased George quite a bit. It was like that. It’s hard to remember who wrote exactly what. It was mostly George’s song. So we were very pleased with it. And he took it to Warner Brothers to turn it in. And [George] played it for them, and they went, ‘My God, this is way too heavy to be a B-side. This is really something.’
But I remember George the night before saying to Jeff, ‘Jeff, this is the Traveling Wilburys.’ And then he explained to me his whole concept of the Traveling Wilburys.
So he arrived at my house that next afternoon after he had played them the track, and he was really excited. Just jumping up and down excited. ‘We’ve got a band! We’ve got to be in a band!’
I said, ‘Okay. I’ll do it.’
He said. ‘We’ve got to get Bob and Roy in it.’ And he was at my house and he picked up the phone and phoned Bob, had a conversation with Bob, and when he hung up the phone, he said, ‘Alright, Bob’s in.’ Next one was Roy. ‘How do we get Roy in this thing? We’ve got to ask Roy. Roy’s playing in Anaheim.’
So we rented a car, all of us piled in the car, Jeff, George, and I and our wives. We drive to Anaheim. We got legal pads, because George wanted us to write down every interesting phrase we heard or saw on the trip to Anaheim and back. And we’re all doing that. Any time somebody said something we thought was really good or made us laugh or we thought was interesting, we wrote it down.
And I remember we went into see Roy before the show, and we threw it out to Roy, and Roy said. ‘Sure, sure, I’ll do it. I’ll be in the band.’ And we rode home just high as kites. A natural high. Like, ‘Roy Orbison’s in our band!’ [Laughs]
Was it agreed from the beginning that you would all write the songs together?
It wasn’t really said. But we were all going to be in the band. That was the first thing that was said. The rest of it just kind of took shape. On a certain day we’re going to turn up and we’re gonna start from there. And it look a little doing, to get that first song off the ground, but we did it, and then we found a way of working, where we could write communally.
Words and music at the same time?
Usually we would have maybe a title or a little bit of words, and then we would write the melody and we’d usually cut the track—this was all at Dave Stewart’s house in Encino.
No, Dave was out of the country. But he lent us his house and his studio. So we would go there. And usually after we had done the track, we’d have dinner. And this was usually where the lyrics started. At dinner. And then when we’d finish the lyric, we’d go up and sing. Sometimes we’d kind of audition to see who sang it the best. ‘Tak
e a bit—you sing it, no you sing it … Well, okay, this one sounds best with Roy singing,’ or whoever.
Jeff and George were the producers. That was good, because we had a little bit of authority. Somebody who was leading this crazy thing. And we just pulled it together. We became a group. It lasted for a couple of years.
When George would play those great solos, would he work them out in advance and then lay them down?
Yeah. I think he would usually practice with the tape. And then he’d work it out, and then he’d go for the take.
He was such a phenomenal player.
Yeah, he was an incredible player. His slide work is so unique. It’s so right in pitch. Today a lot of guitar players don’t even pay any attention to pitch. But he really played in tune, in pitch.
Like he was singing.
Yeah. His slide playing almost sounds like a voice at times.
So I think we were all just as happy as five boys could be. [Laughs]
Dylan is such an amazing wordsmith, it would seem he would lead the writing of the lyrics. But it was more of an equal participation?
Yes. Nobody really outranked anybody. It was like a group effort. And anything that got done had to pretty much he the majority of us digging it. But there were few conflicts. I think we almost always agreed on what was good and what wasn’t.
It’s fun to listen to, and sounds like you all were having fun doing it.
[Softly] We really were. We were having as much fun as you can have. I can’t even impart to you how much fun those days were.
I was taking Polaroids through the whole thing. And Bugs was taking a lot of Polaroids. Bugs was also the Wilbury roadie. And I put all the photos in an album as I was taking them. George actually said, ‘You should put these in an album so they don’t get scratched up or anything.’ And Bugs went down to the drugstore and bought us a little photo album. And I’d stick them all in this photo album. And then George took it back to England at one point, because he thought he might use them for something. And every time I’d be at Friar Park [George’s home], he’d say, ‘Oh, I have your photo album.’ But I always forgot to get it. And then just a week ago, Olivia [Harrison, George’s wife] sent me the photo album. She put it in this really nice album with a Traveling Wilburys logo on the front. And to look at the photos, it really says it all. You can just see we’re having a ball.
Who came up with the first names of the Wilburys? [Each Wilbury went by a fictitious name: Tom was Charlie T., George Harrison was Nelson, Jeff Lynne was Otis, Roy Orbison was Lefty, and Bob Dylan was Lucky.]
Everybody picked their name. Because we didn’t want it to sound like Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young, like a bunch of lawyers. We knew there’d be a lot of heat on it because of who we were. And maybe we could lessen that a little bit by taking on different identities. Because we didn’t want the music to be second to the thing. It was a good band; we didn’t want to kind of slide on who we were. That was kind of inevitable. We didn’t want that to be the main thrust of the thing. And we wanted to keep a sense of humor about it.
What was it like to stand in the studio and hear Roy Orbison’s voice?
Oh, it would just give you a chill to hear him sing over your shoulder. It was such a privilege. I mean, standing around a mike and singing and then hearing that voice in the blend, it was just a chill down your spine. He had such a beautiful tone in his voice.
Would he nail vocals on a first take?
Usually, yeah. In the Wilbury records, who’s singing lead isn’t necessarily who wrote most of the song. Sometimes George liked to kind of audition us. Take the song, and have three or four of us sing the lead. And then he’d decide who sang that one the best. And that’s how that happened. So it would be kind of intimidating it Roy Orbison just sang the song, and then they’d send me out to sing it. [Laughs] But actually, sometimes, they might pick me over Roy, because the song suited me better, or suited Jeff better. Or Bob. What a bunch of singers.
Roy died on December 6, 1988, before you did the second album. Was it tough doing it without him?
Yeah. I mean, he was certainly missed. The second album was a different scene, because by then we were a big successful group. I wouldn’t say the vibe was bad, it was still good, but it had changed a little bit. That’s what success does. We still had a lot of fun on the second one too.
It’s a great album.
I think it is a really good album. It’s different from the first one. You know, we just went on. Roy had died. And it was a terrible loss of a friend.
He was Lefty Wilbury?
Yeah. Named after Lefty Frizzell. I was Charlie T. Because Derek Taylor wrote this huge history of the Wilburys. It didn’t make the album; I think it was Michael Palin who wrote the sleeve notes. But Derek Taylor wrote volumes of history of how the Wilburys came together. And the Wilburys’ father was named Charles Truscott Wilbury. [Laughs] And I thought that was so funny that I decided I’d be Charles Truscott, Jr. [Laughs] So it came out Charlie T.
By the second album, I think there were more record company people around, more managers. Maybe a little more tension on that record. Not a lot.
We never intended to replace Roy. The big thing in the media was, ‘Who is going to take his place?’ We never considered replacing him, that I remember. Whoever came around was dubbed the next Wilbury. If McGuinn came over and hung out, you’d read that Roger was joining. Or Del Shannon was one that was bandied about a lot. But I don’t think we ever, at all, considered bringing someone else in. We were just going to go on, the four of us.
What was it like recording with the Wilburys? Were those fun sessions?
It was about as much fun as you can legally have. I’m sure it was some of the best times in my life. It was really a joyous time. Everyone was so up. The energy level, as far as creativity, was so high. And it was just so much fun. I think everyone was grooving on the fact that the whole thing didn’t lay on any one person’s shoulders. We were all in the position of having to carry the whole thing. Being in this group, where we were sort of equal contributors, all of a sudden, was a great relief. And I think everyone really enjoyed that.
And beyond that, we were really good friends. It really formed some long-lasting friendships. And we were just having a great time. When I think back about it, it’s hard to separate the sessions from days we didn’t have sessions, because we were all still hanging out, whether we were working or not.
But the sessions were great. George was our leader and our manager. But Jeff was certainly equal as a producer. They did an amazing job. And it was a fairly primitive recording situation, because we were working in Dave Stewart’s house. He had a studio across his backyard. But it was the early days, and they’d just put in the board just a little Soundcraft board and a little Soundcraft 24-track. And that was it. We didn’t have any effects, [Laughs] or any of the luxurious things you have. So it was amazing, really, that we pulled it off. But it didn’t seem to matter.
So we cut the tracks there—for the first album—at Dave’s house. And then we went to Friar Park in England, George’s place, and did all the overdubs and mixing there. And that was kind of the pattern for both albums.
Then by the second album, we had this great big mansion up on a hill in Beverly Hills that was a Wallace Neff home [one of California’s most celebrated architects]. He built it in the Twenties. It was kind of a Spanish-style, huge mansion. It was like sixteen acres up at the top of a mountain. We had a big flagpole with the Wilbury flag flying above the home. Even from the bottom of the hill, you could look up and see the flag. So that became dubbed “Wilbury Manor.”
We moved a studio into the library. It had this huge library. And we borrowed a desk and a machine, I think, from Herb Alpert at A&M. And really within forty-eight hours, they put the studio in the library, and we began working.
Jim Keltner [the drummer] should have been billed as a Wilbury. Because he was always there, and he played on everything. He called himself a “Sidebury.” [
Laughs] But he was really a Wilbury. And everyone really loved Jim. He’s a very lovable guy. I’ve known him for many years. Since I was a pretty young guy, knocking around town. Jim’s always sort of been there. You’d look up, and there’d be Jim.
I remember when we were recording “Refugee,” when we were doing the overdubs at Cherokee Studios, he was in the hallway with a little shaker. I came out into the hallway and he’d been playing the shaker along with “Refugee.” And he said, ‘Go in and dub the shaker on it.’ And we did dub it on, and it sounded great. I think Stan played it. Because it was his shaker. [Laughs]
Jim’s a very soulful person. A deep, deep, spiritual person. And really one of the best musicians I’ve ever encountered. Absolutely. I think you’ll find that a lot of the best musicians, not just in L.A. but in England, everywhere, they really look up to Jim. Jim is sort of the guru. [Laughs] Everyone’s guru.
Who played bass?
Jeff. I think Jeff played bass on everything. And we all played acoustic guitars, and then piecemealed whatever was left. It was kind of spread around. The tracks were cut with Jim playing the drums, and for separation, we turned the sofa over in front of the drums. And then on the other side we had the four Wilburys with acoustic guitars. And we would track everything with four acoustic guitars, and then we’d build the track from there. But God, they were fun sessions. How could they not be? And nobody ever went home when the sessions were over. [Laughs] We hung out all night and all day. We went everywhere. It was a lot of fun. Really a lot of fun.
What was Bob like in the studio?
He was very good, very sharp. He had a lot of good ideas.
He has a reputation of not liking to do things more than once in the studio.
Yeah, a lot of people say that about him.
Not true?
I don’t think it’s as true as the myth. I’ve seen him work very hard on things. And do a lot of takes. But a myth builds up around people. Because I think on his own records, he goes for a spontaneity. That’s my experience with him, anyway. He likes to get a lot of spontaneous feel in the record. But I think he keeps an overview of what’s going on, certainly.