“I can't argue with that,” Adam said. “You do need to be sure that you’re following the word of God to be at your best. But we have gotten distracted a bit. We were going to talk about the rapture and the return of Jesus.”
“Yes. It seemed as though you don’t believe in the rapture,” Isaac stated.
“Well I just thought we should look up the scriptures and read them. That's the best way to be sure you are getting the wisdom of God and not just what others want you to believe,” Adam said sincerely. “I think the foundational scriptures for the belief talked about one taken and the other left behind.”
“I have read these scriptures a lot, I don't think they have been misunderstood,” Isaac boldly stated.
“I'm sure your right, but let’s read through them anyway, just to stay consistent with the rest of our discussions. You never know, we may learn something,” Adam said casually.
“I suppose it wouldn't hurt,” Isaac starts to look up scriptures and reads them out loud. “I found a site that lists verses that talk about the rapture and the return of Jesus. I will read through them first and then we can discuss them. It starts with;
1 Thessalonians 4:16-17
For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive [and] remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
1 Corinthians 15:52
In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
Daniel 12:1-2 King James Version
And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
Matthew 24:27-44
For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
Luke 12:40
Be ye therefore ready also: for the Son of man cometh at an hour when ye think not.
Mark 13:32-37
But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
33 Take ye heed, watch and pray: for ye know not when the time is.
34 For the Son of Man is as a man taking a far journey, who left his house, and gave authority to his servants, and to every man his work, and commanded the porter to watch.
35 Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning:
36 Lest coming suddenly he find you sleeping.
37 And what I say unto you I say unto all, Watch.
Luke 17:34-37
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
1 Thessalonians 1:10
And to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead, [even] Jesus, which delivered us from the wrath to come.
1 Thessalonians 5:2
For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord so cometh as a thief in the night.
2 Thessalonians 2:3-7
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
Mark 14:62
And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
Revelation 3:10
Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.
Revelation 20:2-5
And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Revelation 11:15-19
15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
16 And the four and twe
nty elders, which sat before God on their seats, fell upon their faces, and worshipped God,
17 Saying, We give thee thanks, O Lord God Almighty, which art, and wast, and art to come; because thou hast taken to thee thy great power, and hast reigned.
18 And the nations were angry, and thy wrath is come, and the time of the dead, that they should be judged, and that thou shouldest give reward unto thy servants the prophets, and to the saints, and them that fear thy name, small and great; and shouldest destroy them which destroy the earth.
19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.”
Adam paraphrases the scriptures that Isaac just read, “Some of those verses talk about the noisy, obvious return of Jesus, At some unexpected time, to establish the Kingdom of God. The dead believers rise from their graves, just before those who are alive are changed in the twinkling of an eye, according to Jesus in John, ‘on the last day’, at his second coming, the day of the Lord.
Other verses tell us about Satan, being bound for a thousand years, the lake of fire, and all mankind being judged. These versus are all used by people who believe Jesus will return for his believers. There were two sections of verses that are commonly used to support a pe-tribulation rapture. Luke 17:34-37 is one of them, could you read it again?” Adam asked.
“Sure let me find it. OK here it is,” Isaac responded.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.”
“Now read the other one. Matthew 24:27-44,” Adam directed.
“Got it,” said Isaac before starting to read.
27 For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
28 For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
32 Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:
33 So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.
34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,
39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.
43 But know this, that if the goodman of the house had known in what watch the thief would come, he would have watched, and would not have suffered his house to be broken up.
44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.
These are the passages that my profs taught from at school. We will have no notice before Jesus comes to get us. That's why we have to be saved as soon as possible, and not put accepting Jesus off till later. My mom and dad led me to the Lord when I was five. I didn't want to be left behind with all of the sinners after Jesus came back to get his faithful believers. We have to warn everyone and help them see their need for Jesus, so they too can escape the tribulation. I've heard it described as being almost as bad as the torments of Hell,” Isaac passionately recounted.
“Let’s read some verses before and after the passages in Luke to see if we can get complete understanding,” Adam suggested.
“OK,” Agreed Isaac. “If you think it will help. How about if we read from,
Luke 17:22-37?
22 And he said unto the disciples, The days will come, when ye shall desire to see one of the days of the Son of man, and ye shall not see it.
23 And they shall say to you, See here; or, see there: go not after them, nor follow them.
24 For as the lightning, that lighteneth out of the one part under heaven, shineth unto the other part under heaven; so shall also the Son of man be in his day.
25 But first must he suffer many things, and be rejected of this generation.
26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man.
27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all.
28 Likewise also as it was in the days of Lot; they did eat, they drank, they bought, they sold, they planted, they builded;
29 But the same day that Lot went out of Sodom it rained fire and brimstone from heaven, and destroyed them all.
30 Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
31 In that day, he which shall be upon the housetop, and his stuff in the house, let him not come down to take it away: and he that is in the field, let him likewise not return back.
32 Remember Lot's wife.
33 Whosoever shall seek to save his life shall lose it; and whosoever shall lose his life shall preserve it.
34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left.
35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
37 And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.
Let’s start at the beginning,” Isaac said, enthusiastically starting to describe the texts. “Verses 22-24 tells us that the disciples will miss being with Jesus and some people will try to trick them about the return of Jesus, but don't believe them because the return of Jesus will be obvious, like lightning in the dark sky.”
“That's good. You summed up the thoughts nicely,” Adam agrees. “Go on.”
Bolstered by the encouragement, Isaac continues. “25, refers to the Crucifixion and the rejection of Jesus by the Jewish leaders. 26-30 tells us that people won't be expecting the return of Jesus, that it will catch them off guard like in the times of Noah and Lot. Going on 31-33 reminds us to be vigilant in preserving our spiritual lives and not our physical ones. 34-36 are the verses that describe the believers being raptured away to be with Jesus. 37, Jesus tells his disciples, where those left behind can be found. The Eagles are the vultures gathered around the spiritually dead false religious teachers or false saviours. The ones left behind will be with the antichrist and the false ministers of God.”
Adam has a questioning look as he drives, then he
says. “I wonder if we could expand on the section of 26-30. It seems like Jesus was very specific about the two examples he used. Both stories involved people dying on a large scale and he does say that, as it was in those days, so it will be when the son of man is revealed. I wonder if there is anything in those stories that we can learn from.”
Isaac ponders the question. “I don't know. I have never thought about it past the fact that destruction took them by surprise. Let’s overlap Mathew 24:37. Let me see here,” Isaac looks up the scriptural texts and scans over the verses. “Mathew 24:37 to 39 should do it.
37 But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
So again the end time will be like it was in the days of Noah.
38 For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,”
“They were going about their lives like normal until Noah entered the ark,” Adam interjects.”
Isaac nods and continues to read without hardly a pause.
“39 And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
That's when they were taken by surprise, God took them all away and they perished in the flood, leaving behind only Noah and his family alive to repopulate the earth. It will be the same when Jesus returns,” Isaac elaborates his point.
Adam looks puzzled when he exclaims. “Hey wait a minute, who was taken away? In the rapture scenario, those that love Jesus are supposed to be taken and the evil ones left behind alive on the earth, not the other way around. That happens in the story of Lot as well, the evil people are taken away with fire and brimstone, destroying them all. The evil ones were destroyed and taken away. Lot was left behind alive. The rapture doctrine seems to have it backwards.”
Isaac looks puzzled as well, staring in disbelief at the scriptures on the screen. “I have read these verses countless times and I have never thought of them that way before. Luke 17:30 says.
Even thus shall it be in the day when the Son of man is revealed.
And in
Mathew 24:39
and knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
If the coming of Jesus is to be like it is in those stories, then, the righteous are the ones left behind, not the ones taken away. What about the Eagles or vultures and the body or carcass. What could they represent?” Isaac questioned out loud.
Adam offered a thought. “Maybe the Eagles are not Vultures, but are the majestic chosen of God. As well a body doesn't have to be dead; there are many verses that talk positively about Eagles. Perhaps each story has a slightly different meaning? There are many interpretations for what Jesus said.”
“Ya, there are good Eagle references,” Isaac said, starting to type on the keyboard looking up scripture and reviewing commentaries for differing opinions.
“Here are some verses where the Bible refers to people as eagles, not that they explain the meaning of the other verse, just that eagles, aren't always used in a negative term and can be positively positive.” Isaac joked with a grin. Then read some more.
“Psalm 103:5.
Who satisfieth thy mouth with good things; so that thy youth is renewed like the eagle's.
And in;
Isaiah 40:31.
But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.
Another positive reference is in Ezekiel 1:10, where Cherubim are described.
As for the likeness of their faces, they four had the face of a man, and the face of a lion, on the right side: and they four had the face of an ox on the left side; they four also had the face of an eagle.
The commentaries have different opinions for the meaning of ‘where the eagles gather’. Some say the eagles are the wicked, some say they could be church members like in the Pulpit Commentary. The dead body (the carcass), according to these interpreters, is the body of Christ, and the eagles are his saints, who flock to his presence and who feed upon him, especially in the act of Holy Communion.
Others believe Jesus was just telling the disciples where it would take place. Like here in
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary
37. Where—shall this occur?
Wheresoever, etc.—"As birds of prey scent out the carrion, so wherever is found a mass of incurable moral and spiritual corruption, there will be seen alighting the ministers of divine judgment," a proverbial saying terrifically verified at the destruction of Jerusalem, and many times since, though its most tremendous illustration will be at the world's final day.
There is a great variety of opinion. How can they all be right?” Isaac wonders out loud.
“Let's look at this through the lens of mankind not being in possession of an eternal soul. If, as we have read, mankind actually dies when they die, how would that affect the interpretation?” Adam asks. “After all, the faithful in Hebrews did not receive the promise; they have to wait for something better, when all the believers are resurrected at the same time. How has the lie of Satin affected the understanding of those Christians who promote all of these differing opinions?”
“Ah yes, back to the conspiracy,” Isaac teases.
“Well, how would it affect your understanding? If you believed we are only mortal?” Adam asks defensively.
“I suppose to start with,” Isaac starts to talk tentatively. “The dead saints would rise from their graves at the return of Jesus to the earth at his second coming. I think that was somewhere in John. Let me find the verses, ya here they are. John 6. Jesus told them they would be raised at his return, at the last day.
39 And this is the Father's will which hath sent me, that of all which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up again at the last day.
40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.
54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
So if all of the faithful from the Old Testament didn't receive the promise of eternal life, separate from those under the new covenant, that means they are still in their graves. I have it here.” Isaac reads the scriptures from the lap top screen.
“Hebrews 11: 39
And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Those Christians that are still alive, and those who are dead, will be raised all at the same time. Or very close to it, as there is an order to them being made perfect. The dead in Christ shall be raised first, at his return. Like it tells us in 1 Thessalonians 4:13-17,” Reading off of the screen Isaac rereads more previously covered material.
“13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.”
Isaac leans back in his bucket seat and is quiet. He stares blankly out the wi
ndow at the passing scenery deep in thought. Several minutes go by before he speaks again.
Chapter 10
Show Me
The Eden Conspiracy Page 9
