And with whom are you going on this trip?
With my mother… my father.
And what’s your mother’s name?
Kathleen.
What is your father’s name?
Duncan.
And how old are you?
I’m ten.
And you’re going on a trip?
Uh-huh.
A trip to Antrim?
Antrim.
Uh-huh, and it’s by the seashore?
Yes.
Just the three of you are going?
Oh, my brother too.
Which brother?
Why, Duncan—my brother Duncan.
I see.
Uh-huh.
All right, now, tell me about Antrim. Tell me about it. Describe it—what’s it like?
It’s a seashore town. There’s cliffs there. The water runs, the streams run down real fast and they make… little rivulets in the ground to get to the sea… and there’s cliffs… and the cliffs are real white… ’n’ Father says sandstone ballast, black ballast… just… from the Glens of Antrim.
Where is your other brother?
My other brother—little brother… he’s dead.
He’s dead?
Yes.
How old was he when he died?
Oh, he was a baby… just a little baby… I don’t know….
From what did he die?
He was… sick of… I don’t know what was wrong with him. He died… when he was just a little…
What disease did he have?
He… I don’t know… I don’t know.
All right. What is your name?
Bridey.
Bridey what?
Bridey Murphy.
Are you sure that that is your name, or do you really have some other name?
I was named after my grandmother.
You were named after your grandmother?
Uh-huh.
What was her name?
Bridget.
All right. Now tell me what town you live in.
I live in Cork.
In Cork. Now tell me whether Cork is north or south of Belfast
’Tis south of Belfast.
South of Belfast?
Uh-huh.
About what is the distance between Cork and Belfast?
Uh… uh… it’s in a different province. Uh… Belfast is… no… Belfast is… uh—uh… in a different province. … I don’t know how far away it is.
Can you tell me, can you tell me as you go from Cork to Belfast—can you tell me any of the names of the towns, the names of any towns or villages that you pass or go through?
You go through Carlingford… Carlingford.
All right.
… There’s a… there’s… Carlingford is a lake too… a lough… Carlingford, in Carlingford.
All right.
There’s a lough… a lough… a lake… uh… see…
All right. Is there anyplace else that you can tell us besides Carlingford and that other place that you go through or go by on your way from Cork to Belfast… on your way from Cork to Belfast, what other place?
… You go through the Glens of Antrim to go up North….
All right. Now can you give us the names of any rivers in Ireland? Any rivers in Ireland?
There’s Lough Carlingford and Lough Foyle are two… two…. Don’t say “river,” say “lough.”
Oh, I see, “lough” is the word for river?
Uh-huh.
I see, lough. All right. Give us the name of some mountain in Ireland.
… Mountain… there’s a famous one…. What is it?… Oh… I can’t remember the name, but it’s very famous.
Very famous mountain?
Oh, very famous. It has a lot of—Ireland has lots of hills, I don’t remember, but there’s one very famous one….
Well, tell us the name of a well-known lake.
Foyle… Foyle is a lake… a lough… I
A lough?
Yes, lough.
Is a “lough” a river or a lake?
Don’t say “river.”
Don’t say “river”? all right, lough. Now what is the name of that famous mountain?
… Uh… I can’t remember….
Can’t seem to remember the name of the mountain?
No, I know, but I can’t remember.
You know it, but you can’t remember it. All right, perhaps you’ll think of it later. What does your father do?
My father is a barrister.
What does a barrister do?
He practices… legal… business.
All right, practices legal business. All right. When did you first meet Brian? Can you tell us about how old you were when you first met Brian?… I was seventeen.
Did you meet him in Cork or Belfast?
I met him in Cork.
All right. How did he happen to be at Cork?
His father is a barrister too… and his father and he came to our house.
Brian came to your house?
Uh-huh.
When you were seventeen?
Uh-huh.
What school were you going to when you were seventeen?
I was going to a day school. What was the name of the day school?
… Mrs…. Mrs…. uh…
What was the name of the day school? Mrs. what?.
. Uh… uh… uh…
[During the making of the first tape she had given us the name of the day school—Mrs. Strayne’s—but here she is unable to remember it. This example does not stand alone; throughout the series of tapes there are several in stances which indicate that the subject’s memory is sharper at one stage than another. This might be accounted for by difference in the depth of trance, vagaries of memory, or differences in point of orientation of the subject.
In my opinion—and the opinion of witnesses—Ruth achieved her deepest trance during tape number one and tape number five.]
Did you go to any other schools before you went to that day school?
No… I went there all the time, and when I got bigger I stayed there.
You lived right there?
Uh… for the week time.
And then you went home for the weekend?
Yes.
Did you like Brian when you first met him?
No.
How old was Brian?
Oh… he was nineteen.
He was two years older than you?
Uh-huh.
I see. But you didn’t like him when you first met him?
Oh, he was all right. He wasn’t anything.
Well, how did you get engaged to him?
He came back in the summer and worked in his father’s office, and I just… went with him…. ’Twas just taken for granted, I think.
I see. Did you like anybody else before you met Brian?
… Uh… no.
All right. What was the name of Brian’s father?
Brian’s… he… he was John.
John what?
MacCarthy.
All right, you had two friends by the name of Mary Catherine and Kevin.
Yes. Where did they live?
In Belfast.
What was their last name?
… Uh… Mary Catherine and Kevin… Moore…. All right, Mary Catherine Moore, Kevin Moore, is that right?
Yes.
All right, all right. Now tell us about your death. Do you remember your death?
Yes, I… remember… I just… I just went to sleep… I just went off… on a Sunday… it was a Sunday.
It was a Sunday?
Uh-huh.
Uh-huh. About what time of the day was it?
It was while Brian was at church.
While Brian was at church. How old were you?
I was sixty-six.
All right. Can you tell me, can you tell me what are the three essential elements of the Mass in the Catholic Church? What are the three essential elements of the Mass? Can you remember that?
&nb
sp; No.
[At this point I was plainly disappointed. Regardless of whether Bridey had been a Catholic, she still should know—or at least so it seemed to me—something as fundamental as the three essential elements of the Mass. After all, I reasoned, she was married to a Catholic; consequently she should have picked up this much information. I don’t know why, but I had somehow assumed that this was something quite elementary and generally known.
A few days later, however, Stormy Macintosh straightened me out as to this idea. To prove that I was wrong, he asked several people to name the three essential elements of the Mass. Not a single one could comply. Then I asked the answer of the person who had suggested the question in the first place. To my surprise, he, too, failed to give the whole answer.]
Can you ever remember attending Mass?
No.
Didn’t Brian make you go whenever he went?
No.
Oh, he didn’t?
No.
Oh, I see. Now, we would like to check, we would like to check any records, or any other indications, that prove you lived in Ireland at that time. Where could we find, where could we find some records, or any other indications, that would prove you lived in Ireland at that time?
… Uh… there would be some articles in the Belfast News-Letter.
The Belfast News-Letter?
About Brian?
Yes. And he taught at the Queen’s University for some time… you know, the Queen’s University at Belfast.
Uh-huh. And his name appeared in the paper?
Yes, on several times.
Uh-huh.
Belfast News-Letter.
Where else would we find any records of it? Was there a marriage certificate?
Oh… I believe there was… sure… there was banns published. It was… Father John had the banns published.
Uh-huh.
What’s a band?
[I was under the impression that she had said “bands.” But one of the witnesses quickly spelled the word for me.]
Oh, it’s something in the church… you do it before you get married, you… you… know it’s an important bulletin or something, you tell the people that you’re going to get married.
[From one of the witnesses: “B-a-n-n-s.”]
Oh, I see. All right.
That’s the church….
What was your address? Can you possibly remember your address in Belfast?
Uh… uh… uh… uh…
Can you tell us anything about the neighborhood? What side of town, and so forth?
Oh, it was near town, it was near a road, some road…
What was the name of that road? Did it have a name?
It was… about… twenty minutes from St. Theresa’s… walking distance.
What was the address at Cork, can you remember that address?
That was… the Meadows.
The what?
Just the Meadows.
Uh-huh.
All right. I want you to remember your lifetime in Ireland about the time you were forty-seven years old. About that time did you have plenty to eat?
There was… a… I remember… we did.
You did?
Uh… there was trouble.
There was trouble?
Uh, there was trouble.
What kind of trouble?
Well, the people in the South… uh… they didn’t want to have anything to do with England. They… all they… want to send no representative, have nothing to do with them. We… people wouldn’t talk Gaelic. Grandfather wouldn’t talk Gaelic, he would say, “Gaelic is fit only for the tongues of the peasants. Don’t speak Gaelic; it’s fit only for the tongues of the peasants.”
Your grandfather?
Yes.
What was his name?
His name was… Duncan too.
Duncan too?
Uh-huh.
All right. Do you remember any wars, any war or wars, that the people in Ireland were engaged in during your lifetime? Do you remember any wars?
Oh… I remember… about Cuchulain.
[This name, as she said it, sounded like Cooch-a-lain. The spelling was later verified by a friend.]
About what?
Cuchulain. He was a warrior.
He was?
Yes.
An Irishman?
Yes… he was the bravest, and the strongest, and when he was seven… seven years old, he could slay big men.
Is that right?
Uh… when he was seventeen he could hold whole armies.
Did you ever see him?
No.
Where did you hear about him?
My mother told me about him.
I see. Did you ever hear anything about America? During this lifetime did you ever hear anything about America?
Uh… yes… some… somebody went there. They went to… America.
Who went there?
Some friends of my mother and father, and they went to Pennsylvania.
To stay?
Yes.
Did they write to you?
They always wrote to my mother… ’n’ my father.
What were the names of those friends?
… Uh… Whitty.
Whitty?
Whitty.
[I haven’t the slightest idea whether this is the correct spelling. This would seem to be the phonetic spelling.]
That was their last name?
Uh-huh.
And they went to Pennsylvania.
Uh-huh.
Did they like America?
Uh-huh.
They wrote your mother that they liked America?
Uh-huh.
I see. Now you say you were sixty-six years old when you died?
Uh-huh.
And you died while Brian was at church?
Yes, I died while Brian was at church. [Very faintly.]
All right. Now I want you to rest. I want you to rest and relax, be completely comfortable. Now, we’ll return again to your lifetime in Ireland, return again to your lifetime in Ireland, return again to your lifetime in Ireland, What was the name of that famous mountain in Ireland?
[No answer.]
Can you remember the name?
I just can’t remember.
Just can’t quite remember?
No, I just…
Well, give us the names of some other loughs.
Loughs! [Correcting pronunciation.]
Loughs, all right. Give us a few, two or three.
Lough Munster.
Lough Munster? All right, what else?
Lough… There’s a lough for each…
Lough what?
For each… of the provinces. There’s… four provinces… Munster, Ulster… Ulster….
Ulster. Remember any other?
Uh… uh… two more.
Can’t remember the other two?
No.
All right. Let’s go up to the time of your death, up to the time of your death. How old were you?
Sixty-six when I died.
All right. What happened after you died? Tell us about what happened after you died. Did you watch them bury you?
Oh, I watched them. I watched them ditch my body.
You watched them ditch your body?
Yes.
And you saw Brian?
Oh yes, I saw him. He was there.
Where did you go? After you died?
I went home. I stayed in the house and watched Brian.
You watched Brian?
Uh-huh.
All right. How did Father John die?
Father John… he just died in his sleep.
Died in his sleep?
Yes.
You didn’t watch him die, did you?
No, I didn’t watch him die.
But he came to you after he died?
Yes, he did, and we talked…. He had a pleasant death.
He had a pleasant death?
Uh-huh.
Well, where did Father John go
when he left you? When he left the house there, where did he go?
He said he was going to his home.
He said he was going to his home?
Uh-huh.
Do you have any idea where Father John could be now? Is he living on this earth?
I don’t know…. He’s living. He lives.
He lives?
He lives.
How do you know?
I just… know that you live.
But do you know where he lives? Do you have any idea where he lives?
No… I don’t know. I went back to Cork and I didn’t see him.
I see. All right, while you were in this spiritual world, while you were in this spiritual world did you hear anyone call it the astral world? Did you hear anyone call it the astral world?
Astral world.
Did you ever hear that name?
Yes, I’ve heard that.
All right, we will refer to it as the astral world. We will now refer to it as the astral world. In this astral world did you have any feelings or emotions?
You were just… satisfied; you weren’t… you… I felt bad when… when Father John died, but he came to me and we talked, and it was not like the grief you have here.
Not like the grief you have here?
No, it’s… nothing to be afraid of.
Did you have any pain in that astral world?
No. No.
No pain? Did you have any attachments of any kind, any family attachments, relatives?
No.
No marriages?
No.
I see. Do relatives stay together?
No. No… we… it was… no, my mother was never with me. My father said he saw her, but I didn’t.
Oh, you didn’t see your mother?
No.
Your father, though, told you that he saw her.
Yes.
I see. Was there any such thing as love and hate?
No.
You neither loved nor hated?
No… loved those that you left.
You didn’t hate anyone?
No.
You said that you couldn’t talk very long with anyone in that astral world, that they would go away. You said that you couldn’t talk very long because they would go away. Where would they go?
They would just… journey… just a passing phase… you just… you have no time. There’s… nothing’s important… you just…
All right. You said that you went from your house at Belfast in this astral world, you drifted back to Cork. How did you get from Belfast to Cork?
The Search for Bridey Murphy Page 15
