… I just willed myself there.
You did what?
Willed myself there.
Willed yourself there. How long did it take to get from Belfast to Cork? I don’t know. It wasn’t any time. It wasn’t any time? In other words, when you thought about being in Cork you were there in Cork?
Just almost.
Uh-huh. All right. While you were in Cork in this astral life, in this astral world, did you know what was going on at Belfast, back at Brian’s house, could you tell what was going on in Belfast at Brian’s house?
No.
You didn’t know?
I didn’t… watch. You could.
You could watch?
You could… but… I didn’t watch. I just stayed there… you could see… just anything.
You could see anything you wanted to see just by wanting to see it?
Just willing it… so you just think… you see everything.
I see. Could you ever tell, while you were at Belfast, could you ever tell what Brian was thinking about? Could you tell what he was thinking about?
Oh, I knew when he missed me. I knew when he needed me…’n’… he missed me after Father John didn’t come to the house.
He missed you then?
Yes. He… was lonesome before, but they would talk, and he had somebody…. After he died, he was lonely.
After he died, what?
After Father John died, he was lonely.
I see. Could you read his thoughts then, could you read his thoughts all the time?
… If I thought of it I could think of… I could know what he wanted and think. When you saw your brother, your little brother that died—when you went back to Cork you told us that you saw your little brother that died.
Yes.
How did he look? Did he look like a small child, or did he look like a grown-up adult?
He was just little.
Just the way he looked when he died?
No, he was… he was just a child, but he wasn’t… he could talk.
I see. Could he talk when he died?
No, he was… no, he couldn’t when he died… he was just a baby.
Uh-huh, but he could talk when you saw him?
Yes, he could talk then.
How was he dressed?
No clothes.
No clothes. All right. And you remember talking to your little brother. Do you remember anything he told you?
Yes… he told me that… Duncan and I would run through the room and… push over the cradle, and Duncan would tip him out, and he’d cry, and Duncan would run and hide and my mother would think I did it.
Well, didn’t that hurt him when you tipped over the cradle? It was on the ground. It was…
Oh, I see.
Just a little thing. He would just roll out.
Didn’t you and Duncan like your little brother?
Oh yes. We liked him, but he… he was always so sick, and my mother was always with him after he came. What did he die of, your little brother?
… Don’t know. … I can’t….
What did he die of?
… I can’t remember…. He was just a baby, I know, but…
All right. In that astral world, in that astral world did you ever have any changes in temperature, any hot or cold? No, No heat, no cold. Did you ever have any wars of any kind, any fights of any kind?
No.
No wars, no fights?
No.
All right. In that astral world did you have a sense of smell, and touch, and hearing, and seeing? Did you have all those senses? In the astral world could you touch things?
No.
Could you smell things?
No. You could see….
You could see.
And you could…
You couldn’t smell? You couldn’t touch?
You could hear.
But you could hear. All right. Now you told us that there was always a sort of light in your astral world, there was always a sort of light but that you could see the night and day, you could see the night and day that Brian was having while it was always light where you were. Is that right?
Uh-huh.
That light that you had, that light, you could see it clearly, and you could see when Brian was having night and day, is that correct?
Yes.
But could you touch or feel or sense the light that you were having in the astral world? Could you sense that light in any way besides seeing it? Could you sense that light in any other way besides seeing it?
No.
You couldn’t.
No.
All right. How could you tell you were having light all the time? How could you tell? How could you tell that Brian was having night and day?
I could see him, and I could see him go to bed, and I would sit there by the bed… and they just accept the night and day.
Well, then you knew it was night because he was going to bed, but did you actually see a change in color?
No. No, I just knew it was night. He accepted it.
Oh, I see. He accepted it, but you couldn’t see it?
No.
I see. All right. Was there anything, were there any things in that astral world such as death, disease, or old age? Were there any such things as death, disease, or old age in that astral world?
There was no death, there was just a… passing of… you passed from that existence… you passed… to another existence. That’s all, there was no death.
Any disease?
No.
Any old age?
No. There were old people there; I was old. I was…
Did you get any older?
No. I was sixty-six.
I see. All right, now rest and relax, rest and relax, and let’s go back once again to that astral world. In that astral world did you ever have to obey any regulations or laws of any kind? Did you ever have to obey any regulations in that astral world?
No.
No laws, no regulations?
No.
Nobody guided you, nobody gave you instructions?
No.
You just went where you willed to go?
Yes.
You did what you willed to do.
Uh-huh.
You rest and relax, rest and relax, rest and relax, and let those scenes come into your mind long before the lifetime in Ireland. Those scenes will come into your mind. Those scenes will come into your mind, and I’ll talk to you again in just a few minutes, and you will tell me about them. Just rest and relax and let those scenes come into your mind. [Switch to other side of tape.] Rest and relax, rest and relax, and just listen to my voice. Just listen to my voice. You remember the astral world, and you remember Father John, and you remember your life as Bridey Murphy. You remember your lifetime in Ireland as Bridey Murphy. And you remember being a very small girl in that lifetime. Now you’re thinking even farther back, back, back, and back. You’re going farther and farther back. Now some scene is coming into your mind, some scene in your mind that you can tell me about. Go ahead and tell me about it. Go ahead and tell me about the scene that is in your mind…. Tell me about the scene. What is in your mind?
I don’t know.
You don’t know? You don’t see a scene?
No.
No scenes at all?
No.
Nothing farther back?
No….
No scenes come into your mind. Do you see any scenes in which you were a child?
… In Ireland… I was a child… a little girl… in Ireland. Reading… reading… in a book.
You were reading a book? Do you remember the name of the book?
Uh-huh.
What was the name of the book?
It was Sorrows of… Sorrows of… Deirdre. Sorrows of whom?
Deirdre. [She pronounced this as Dee-ay-druh.]
All right. How old were you when you read that book?
I was… eight.
What was the book about?
I
t was about Deirdre… and she was… beautiful girl and… she was going to marry… this king… this King of Scotland… and she didn’t love him… and this boy came and saved her. She was in a dungeon… and they ran away… and they were betrayed and brought back… and they killed him and she committed suicide. The story of the Sorrows of Deirdre.
You read that when you were eight years old?
No, it was my mother read it.
Your mother read it?
It’s a story that everybody reads in Ireland. It’s the Sorrows of Deirdre.
Sorrows of Deirdre. Do you know who wrote it?
… No… I just know I heard it.
Your mother told it to you?
Yes, and… the Tales of… Enter. [Or Emir.]
The tales of whom?
Enter.
Enter?
Uh.
And what were those about?
It was about the most beautiful girl in Ireland… and she had… she had six gifts.
She had six gifts?
Uh-huh.
Can you remember what they were?
… Gift of beauty… and the gift of song… and the gift of pleasant speech… and the gift of… wisdom… and the gift of needlework… and the gift of… chastity.
The gift of chastity. All right. All right. What else do you remember about that lifetime in Ireland when you were a little girl?
… Uh… I remember… pulling the straws off the roof. Pulling straws off the roof?
Uh-huh.
You had a straw roof?
No, it was… the barn was… thatched roof.
Thatched roof.
Was pulling the straws off… and my father was so mad….
All right. Now I want you to think back, back, back before this Irish lifetime. Just drift on back. If you make no particular effort you’ll find that you can drift on back. I want you to drift on back, and you’ll find yourself in New Amsterdam. You’ll find yourself in New Amsterdam. Drift on back until you pick up a scene in New Amsterdam. Now, do you have a scene in New Amsterdam?
Uh…
Do you see a scene in New Amsterdam?
Uh… uh… uh…
Don’t see a scene?
Uh… arm hurts.
Your arm hurts?
Uh-huh.
When you were in Amsterdam?
Uh-huh,
Why did it hurt?
Oh… sick. You were sick? With what?
… Uh… uh… arm hurts.
Your arm hurts? Why does your arm hurt?
Uh… my leg hurts.
Your leg hurts. All right, it hurt you then, but it doesn’t hurt you now, it doesn’t hurt you now. All right, now let’s forget about the lifetime in New Amsterdam. Let’s forget about that and go back to Ireland.
[Because the subject seemed painfully disturbed, I quickly suggested another scene, one that would divert her from the New Amsterdam sequence. Then I concluded the session in the usual manner.]
CHAPTER 12
Between the second and third session Stormy Macintosh and I had a new thought. If this girl had really lived that lifetime in Ireland, if she had really been Bridey Murphy, we reasoned, then perhaps she had had some special talent or ability that could either be demonstrated during the trance or brought out later by means of a post-hypnotic suggestion. Maybe she could play the piano or some other instrument; she might even have been able to play chess. We hoped, in short, that we could evoke from Bridey Murphy the execution of some skill or ability which is not presently within the capacity of Ruth Simmons.
So in preparing for our third round with Bridey we set up our plans accordingly. Then, entreating the Simmonses to reserve a few hours before I left for New York on January 26, I was granted the evening of January 22, 1953.
The following is the transcription of the third recorded session (after the customary ordinary age regression):
TAPE III
Let’s go back before you were born in this life. Let’s go on back, back, back before your birth. Do you remember that? Do you remember the existence before you were born into this life?… I just… remember being… just waiting to… oh… oh…
Go ahead and tell me about that, waiting to what?
… To be just… oh… oh… you just wait.
Where were you waiting?
I just… waiting where everybody waits.
Waiting where everybody waits? What do you call that place where everybody waits?
It’s just a place of waiting.
Oh, I see. All right, well now, in that, let us call it the astral world or spirit world, in that astral world or spirit world who told you that you were going on to another existence? Who told you that you were going to be born again?
Some… women.
Some who?
Women.
Women?
Yes.
What did they call them?… Or don’t you remember what they called them?
[After Bridey’s comments in the earlier tapes regarding the astral world, I looked up the report of another investigator who is doing some of these same kinds of hypnotic experiments. From his material I derived a few more questions about the astral world.]
Oh…
Did they have any name at all?
I don’t remember.
Now in this astral world, the spirit world, could you tell the difference between males and females? Was there any sex, in other words?
No.
I see. But you could tell a man was a man, or that a woman was a woman?
You just knew.
You just knew, I see.
All right. Now here is a question that I want to ask you. While you were there in that astral world, in that spirit world, were there times when you could remember all of your previous lifetimes?
I don’t remember.
You don’t remember?
I… remember some things, but I…
Now there are some things that you remember. Just pick out anything, just pick out anything you remember and tell us about that…. Uh… I… remember… dancing… dancing…
Dancing with whom?
By myself.
Dancing by yourself?
I was… practicing… jig.
[As she was soon to explain, she was referring to her dancing when she lived in Ireland.]
You were practicing a jig?
Uh-huh. I was a good… dancer.
You were a good dancer.
Yes, as little girls go, I was a good dancer.
Now, were you remembering that you danced in the astral world or you were in the astral world and you could remember that you once danced?
I was remembering I could dance.
You did dance in the astral world?
Oh no.
Oh no. I see. All right. Now, there in that astral world, in that spirit world, were there any insane people?
I didn’t see any.
You didn’t see any. All right, that’s good. Now, also, while you were in that astral world, in that spirit world, could you tell the future for the people on earth? Could you look at the people on the earth and see what was going to happen to them?
Yes.
You could?
Yes.
You could see the future?
Yes.
I see. What makes you say that you could? Give us an example.
Because I… I just… seems like before… you were born… you would know you would pass… just see things that were going to happen… and I saw a war… some man there said there was going to be a war. It was before I was born… before I was born. And he… he said… be a war… there was a war before I was born… they could see… people knew what was going to happen… if you were there.
[Bridey Murphy MacCarthy died in 1864; Ruth Mills Simmons was born in 1923.]
I see. All right.
But that doesn’t concern you.
It didn’t concern you. I see. Well, that’s very interesting, very interesting. Now, rest and relax, rest and relax.
Be perfectly comfortable. Rest and relax. You will not get tired. Now I want you to remember farther back, just very easily without any effort, you just remember back, back, back, and you will pick up a scene, a former scene, when you lived on the earth. Now just go on back before you were in that astral world, go on back to before you were in that astral world and you will pick up a scene and you will tell us about it.
… Uh… birthday party.
Birthday party? All right.
… Seven years old.
You’re seven years old?
Uh-huh.
Is it your birthday party?
It’s my birthday.
I see. And what is your name?
Bridey.
All right. Who was there at your birthday party?
… Ah… my mother… and my father… and my brother.
All right, who else?
Just the family.
How about your little brother? Was he there?
Oh no!
He was dead. He was dead? What was the name of your other brother? What was the name of the brother who was there?
Duncan.
Duncan, I see. What was the name of your mother?
Kathleen.
Kathleen. And how about your father, what was his name?
It was Duncan too.
Duncan too, I see. And your father, Duncan, what did he do, what was his business?
He was a… barrister.
A barrister?
Yes.
In what town?
In Cork.
Is that where you lived, in Cork?
Yes.
I see. All right. Now you were seven years old and were having a birthday party. Do you remember who else was there? Was there anyone else besides the family?
Oh… it was… Mary was there… she did the cooking.
Mary who?
Mary…
Remember her last name?
… No… no… I don’t remember.
Well, all right, I want you to get a little older in that same lifetime. Get a little older, see yourself getting eight, nine, ten, eleven, twelve, older and older. See yourself going to that day school that you told us about before. See yourself at the time of going to that day school. Did they teach you anything about politics?
Oh no!
Oh no?
They don’t teach that… they don’t.
Well, now, let’s go on farther, and remember yourself getting older all the time, and then you met and finally married…. Whom did you marry?
The Search for Bridey Murphy Page 16
