Carpe Noctem Interviews - Volume 2

by Carnell, Thom

  I’m there! I want to ask you a couple of questions about when you got into school. What can you tell me about Armageddon Fabulosa?

  Going back to the glorious 70’s, there was a barrage of films I saw as a kid that really pole vaulted my zest for movies through. Spaghetti Westerns and the Bond pictures were very, very big, but also landmarks were Tales From The Crypt, Patton and endless, incredible exploitation pics! You remember that era. A couple of years later, when I was twelve, I bought a Super 8 camera and made my first horror film under Rain 1 Productions, which still exists today. In 1975, with a friend Ryan Brennan, we made Things that Go Bump in the Night about an unstoppable killer at Halloween. It was thirty minutes long and I still, to this day, think it’s my best work. [laughs] From there, I just made a barrage of stuff. A lot of people say that they made stuff when they were twelve, but you never seem to see it.

  So, then you continued to make short films?

  Right, among them were Godzilla vs Jesus which Buddha won. Of course, young efforts included Living Dead stuff notably Dismember the Alamo by which the heroes of The Alamo come back in the 70’s to – you guessed it – eat the flesh of Mexicans! [laughs]

  [laughs]…ever a Texan, eh?

  Exactly. They came back to take revenge. So, it was pretty fun. And then, I went to the University of Texas at Arlington.

  Were you majoring in Film?

  Yeah. I majored in Radio, TV and Film and minored in History. It was a very interesting experience. That’s where I started learning that we’re our own breed and in the middle of any politics, because, as you know, film schools attract the most licentious form of ‘artists’ and whenever we do something that we like, it’s considered ‘commercial’ or ‘not artistic.’ It was incredibly annoying. I remember doing one film where a guy was breaking up with his girlfriend and found out that his uncle was Ernst Stavro Blofeld. Ernst provided our male lead with the means to cut her in half with an M-60 machine gun. I remember one professor literally made a film of just one angle of his hands stirring coffee and it was entitled My Father’s Hands. [He] ended it with a poem read over it or some shit and at the end he said, ‘I suddenly looked down and discovered I had my father’s hands.’ Well, Alan McFarland, also from Arlington, Texas, who joined me around the junior high school era of Super 8 filmmaking (and is still with me, he’s out here today and worked on Wishmaster). I remember we got in horrible trouble because we shot what I considered to be an equally artistic counterpart, My Father’s Penis. We filmed this rather well endowed black gentleman on the football team and put the professor’s same dialogue off his audio track over it, dubbing in a deep black drawl, ‘And I looked down and der’ be my father’s penis.’ [laughs] Boy, this guy went berserk. He can’t take a joke. But, in a way, I look back and thank that whole experience because it really was a good way to learn about the bullshit out here in L.A. Armageddon Fabulosa was the last project I made when I was at the university. It was my third 16mm endeavor and I backed it from a variety of methods: valet parking, I played a little drums at the time in a couple of shows with the likes of Screaming Jay Hawkins…

  There ya go!

  Yeah, it was fucking cool! You know, just putting whatever little money was gathered into that and pulled it off. That was like 1985. It’s about a southern evangelist, Reverend Buxton, played by my brother, Greg Rainone, who is going insane and selling automatic weapons and armored vehicles to his followers to prepare them for the Rapture. I guess it sort of happened a few years later…that is if you believe that stone-faced bulldyke Janet Reno.

  How was that received in school?

  Well, in the film class, it was really weird. It wasn’t received too well. They just sort of shunned it. Yet, during the big festival, it was really cool, because everyone loved the shit out of it.

  Vindicated.

  Yeah. The usual.

  Was that college fairly fundamentalist?

  No. Texas isn’t. That’s just a big rumor. Texas is the most incredibly freethinking, most incredible fucking place on the planet Earth. If I could be shooting there now, it’s where I’d always shoot. Liquor, Suns, strippers, hot rod – Action! Somethin’ for everyone!

  Are your folks still back there?

  Yeah, my whole family’s back there, and whenever I can swing it, that’s where I work – like when I did that Ministry/Revolting Cocks video. It was shot in Texas and, for that, I was rewarded with infinitely more depravity than I could ever cultivate in so called ‘weird L.A.’ That sort of ended with that whole band moving to Texas.

  You showed them a good time.

  Oh yeah. It’s natural there, you know? So, anyway, Armageddon was nominated for a Student Academy Award.

  Did it win?

  No, but it made a big to-do that a kid from Texas made this film for five thousand and was even nominated against all of these UCLA students who had a hundred thousand dollars to spend on a student movie. So, things were going pretty good and I contacted Herschell Gordon Lewis and Dr. Lewis came to my house in Texas where we discussed doing a parody of Faces of Death which was ultimately titled Herschell Gordon Lewis’ They Saved Elvis’ Brain. Just after I conceived it, it was going to be [called] H. G. Lewis’ Faces of Pain and Dismemberment. It was structured to really parody all Mondo films with Lewis as the commentator. It’s really a pretty amazing script that I co-wrote with a friend, Kenneth Weinert. Everything was looking good when, unfortunately, I suffered a family tragedy that knocked me down. Man. I lost a year and came back out and that spark Armageddon created was all, of course, forgotten. I approached those fellows who made Reanimator and producer turned director Brian Yuzna offered me a job making coffee on this movie Society. So, I stuck with it, suffered, and all that bullshit ended up as the third Assistant Director plus a cool cameo in the picture eating an eyeball, which my girlfriend at the time, Robin Agee, passed from mouth to mouth.

  You were in the end party scene right along with Chas Balun?

  Yeah, I was the one who called Chas. It was really exciting. So, Brian was the first guy who gave me a job out here and then that led to Bride of Reanimator which, thanks to Mike Muscal who was the co-producer, I was elevated to Effects Coordinator, Second Unit Director, and, ironically, unit publicist. It’s a great position to be in because you really helped design the FX and the execution, come up with a lot of ideas, especially on a Yuzna picture. It’s cool.

  You brought up music videos. I wanted to ask you something about that. I see a lot of directors who are making films started in music videos. Do you think that’s a good training ground?

  Well, yes and no. See, I personally hate music videos. I can’t watch MTV. It’s despicable. I don’t think Webster has the words to describe my infinite hatred for MTV. Yet, videos can be worthwhile if you use it as a way to make a miniature movie. When I was approached by Al Jourgenson to make that video which was spawned from the national attention Armageddon got when David Koresh let loose earning me a spot on the national broadcast news that a guitarist friend and fellow horror enthusiast brought to Al’s attention. I didn’t know how to make a music video. I basically shot a friggin’ feature and couldn’t, for the life of me, figure out how to cut down to four minutes and fifty-eight seconds. [laugh] It was literally Al who told editor Bob Murawski and I how to cut on the beats and on the colors and all of that shit and just kind of punched it along, I guess…

  I’d like to run down some of the films that you’ve worked on. You mentioned Bride of Reanimator. How was that? I mean, you were in there with the likes of Screaming Mad George and KNB.

  Mad George and I have done a lot of stuff together. However, on our first two films we hated each other. I literally wanted to cut his head off and I’m sure he thought likewise of me. There’s something about a Texan and an orange haired Japanese guy with mascara… [laughs] We just didn’t click at all. On Silent Night, Deadly Night Part 4, I was the director and George was the FX guy on the second unit which was doing a very large portion of the picture
. Something just clicked and George and I have become the best of friends and colleagues. He is truly a unique artist whom I’ve worked with on 10+ things since.

  Now what about the FX guys like KNB?

  Well, KNB was an instantaneous fucking friendship. Those guys are great. They love the genre. They’re into it and I’ve been working with them ever since. All of those guys are great, wild as hell and enjoy the 90 proof recklessness I treasure. I’ve never really hired anybody that I didn’t like. I’m sure there are some exceptions, but it’s not really worth mentioning.

  You worked on Children of the Corn III? How was that?

  That was excellent, man. Have you seen it?

  [long pause] uh…no.

  Well, see it. I absolutely despise 1 and 2. They’re hideous. In fact, I haven’t even seen 2. I hated 1. But, look at Part 3 and tell me if it isn’t like being at your favorite drive-in in 1975. It’s over the top, unnecessarily gory and ridiculous. I feel I contributed heavily to that factor working with Anthony Hickox’s brother, James. It was very low budget deal that was turned into a nonsensical scumfest that I’m sure people will appreciate.

  What about Freaked (which is one of my son’s favorite films of all time)?

  Excellent.

  Was that just what it seemed to be, a whole lot of fun goin’ on?

  Yeah, it was. It’s always a lot of fun when you work with directors who know what they’re doing and that’s Tom Stern and Alex Winter. They had a very clear-cut plan of what they wanted. In a lot of movies, directors rely heavily on their people, maybe a little too heavily, but not in that case. Those guys knew what they wanted, they got it, and it was a pleasure. I kept bumping into Alex around the time I was doing Honey, I Blew Up the Kid. We saw each other back stage at AC/DC and then at Robert Williams shows and all of this type of shit and we just got to talking. When he got Freaked going, he brought Harry and Mary Jane Ufland, the producers, down to the Disney lot where I had an office on Honey and we talked and that’s where it all started, it was titled Very Special People then.

  See, that threw me. When I saw Honey, I Blew Up the Kid on your list of credits, I went, ‘What?’

  [laughs] Well, now hold on just a minute. I’ve never done anything I didn’t want to do. That’s the truth. That film, first of all, is cool because, you have to look at it like this, it’s basically an unrecognized homage to Bert I. Gordon’s The Amazing Colossal Man.

  Yeah, I can see that because of going into Vegas.

  Yeah, a giant going into Vegas, only now, it’s a giant Jewish baby. What more can I say? Plus it was the first time I really got paid. [laughs]

  It just surprises me and reminded me of when I interviewed Stuart Gordon and discovered that he had an office on the Disney lot. He was saying, ‘Oh, yeah, I’m working for Disney.’ I thought, ‘Wait a minute…’

  It was fun because I was brought in by Mike Muscal. I remember there were a lot of problems in making the little ten year olds who were doubling for the two year olds understand their action in front of the blue screen. Now, I have little hands so I made the suggestion of building the clothing and the miniatures in relation to my hand and, at that time, my physique. So, I was the big baby when you see it without a head or it’s picking up the car…

  …that was you.

  Oh, yes. And it was beautiful because I’d be out standing on these miniatures saying, ‘AAAAAH! I don’t want to grow anymore!’ It was utterly excellent. I felt like I was right in the midst of an A.I.P. Extravaganza! I drove Tom Smith [of I.L.M. fame], who directed 2nd Unit and was the picture’s Visual Effects producer, crazy with my constant references to Gordon’s methods being the best! Not to mention just overdoing the Glen Langan impression… ‘I don’t want to grow anymore!’ Thanks to Kid, I was able to graduate off of Joe Pilato’s [Rhodes in George Romero’s Day of the Dead] couch to rooming with Tim Ralston whom I met on The Guyver. Damn, during Society I shared a place with a fellow school chum who lived just off Hollywood Boulevard at the time when crack was introduced. Son-of-a bitch, it was undoubtedly the most horrible fucking sneak preview at what Hell has to offer. None of these movies like Colors or what not have it right! Thanks to Pilato, I escaped. However, Johnny Legend during that time (1987-1988) lived in the building next door, and he showed me the ropes of survival, and we ignited a friendship that found us discussing endless projects at the Hollywood Boulevard all night cafe – Delta’s. Finally, we acted on one of our brainstorms by which I directed and shot Johnny hosting the annual Christmas Hollywood Parade (as only Johnny can!). This was later released as Sleazemania on Parade. I never participated in the later editions as I knew the first could never be topped, and I believe this was definitely the case. In recent years, Johnny and my paths have parted, but I still have the utmost respect for his unique knowledge and expertise in the fields of sleaze, sexploitation’s history, and his noble endeavors to expand the likes of both into these worthless 90’s. We are, of course, still close friends, and from Bride of Reanimator to Children of the Corn III and more to come, I’ve worked to get Johnny on the screen in order to give his moments that special charge that only Legend can deliver. By the way, it was during those crack neighborhood days that I had Legend procure a number I desperately sought of my idol Rudy Ray Moore (Dolemite). Legend came through, and I quickly contacted Mr. Moore whom I started booking in clubs in Texas. He was a hit! Rudy was then cast in my Ramones video as the husband of Karen Black. I was most honored last year when Mr. Moore announced me at Hollywood’s Viper Room as Dolemite’s only official white son. Fucking excellent!

  Now how about Return of the Living Dead 3?

  Return of the Living Dead 3 was a great experience for me.

  I really liked that film.

  Well, good. I must thank you for that because it was a lot of work. It was right after Freaked and do you know that Bette Midler movie where they were witches?

  Hocus Pocus.

  I actually gave up working on that for Return of the Living Dead 3 just to show you where my priorities are. That’s right at the time when Mike Scaccia (who was the real genius in that band Ministry), contacted me on behalf of Al [Jourgenson] to see them at Lollapalooza and hook up for doing the video. So, that particular Lollapalooza event, I got some additional passes and took Mad George, Brian [Yuzna], Wayne Toth, Mike Deak and Bob Murawski. When Brian and I were there watching…do you remember the Jim Rose Traveling Circus? Watching Mr. Lifto was when the idea developed of how Dead Julie would thwart her cannibalistic cravings for her boyfriend.

  It made for a great image.

  Yeah. That was a lot of fun. The Living Dead [are] always a pleasure and, again, I cast the living dead, I directed the second unit. It was really cool and I really thank Brian [Yuzna] for giving me the opportunity to have the helm so much on that one with over five hundred credited 2nd Unit shots! Dave Trippet at Trimark, the executive, really was so happy with the way things turned out. I mean, that film didn’t even need any re-shoots. Then, afterwards, Trippet gave me my first one sheet credit. I think that film still holds the record for the most FX companies on a show. The usual Rainone assembly of deadbeats were in that, including my brother, Peter Rainone. He gets his eye gouged out with a crowbar and his partner is Mike Deak who is a legacy of horror FX out here and perhaps my favorite companion when combining liquor and firearm use – an unbeatable combination. He’s done like over a hundred movies. I visited Deak the other night on George Romero’s set for this Living Dead commercial. Deak kicked his legacy off when he played the zombie who tore Joe Pilato in half in Day of the Dead.

  Now what about Lord of Illusions?

  Lord of Illusions… That film is kind of where I crossed a line in earning a name in the industry. It was really cool. All I know is that I put Clive Barker in the same category as Tom Stern and Alex Winter as well as Robert Kurtzman, real film directors as well as film connoisseurs. Clive and I hit it off right off the bat.

  Yeah, Clive is great.

  He is
great and, it’s funny, I was very open and honest. When I came into the picture, they had some other people doing things and they had it regulated differently and I just said, ‘Look, man, this is going to be a fucking disaster because these sissies don’t even care about the genre. Just let me propose to you some things to insure the essential.’ After that meeting, he gave me complete control in assembling both the creature and visual effects packages. I brought in Steve Johnson, KNB, of course, Fantasy II on visual effects, and on down the line. That show though was the most intensive thing I had ever done. I mean, it was six days a week. At least sixteen hours a day for months. I was working for The Master and givin’ it hell. Tim Ralston, who made the exo-skeleton in Return of the Living Dead 3. Do you remember that? That was very cool because Tim has that Survival Research Laboratory mentality on PCP. On that show, I was really pushing not to have a Robocop suit on Return 3. The military, no matter who they are, it’s always going to look rough, but I really wanted a Marquis DeSade/Herbert Lom Mark of the Devil look that only Tim could produce. So, I brought Tim in to make the mask on Lord of Illusions. He actually forged that thing the way it would have been in the fifteenth century. It was devised having it in several different pieces so it wouldn’t be like Barbara Steele’s mask pounded into her in Mario Bava’s Black Sunday. It’s funny, with Clive, he’s one of these guys who genuinely knows these references so, to everyone else and to all else involved on set, it was like we were speaking a foreign language. But, it was a pleasure and an honor having served him. I also directed the visual effects unit on that which I worked with all of the principals and directed them. It was cool. I was always crossing into other areas to make sure everything worked out. I mean, my ‘59 Cadillac’s in it down to my guns. [laughs] I would do it again for that boy tomorrow.