Carpe Noctem Interviews - Volume 2

by Carnell, Thom

  Yeah it’s pretty country out there. We’re actually up in Idaho so we get…

  I used to live up in Idaho.

  Did you really? It’s a nice place…

  Yeah, that part of Wyoming actually is pretty desolate. I mean its high country. There’s hardly any trees. It’s just very middle of the state, you know. The elevation’s probably, oh I don’t know, 7000 feet. It’s just really windy. It’s a tough place, but there is some beauty to it.

  Yep… Another thing that interested me was Leatherface.

  [laughs] That was fun. I don’t know how many times they sent that to the censors. People think that the ratings board is some kind of official [body which has an] answerable objective, answerable to the public or something. It’s not. I mean it’s just a bunch of guys making decisions with certain codes to go by. I do think that if that movie had been, say, put out by a big studio I think maybe they would have gotten [away with more].

  Right, oh, I think they might …

  Anyway, they kept getting X’s or triple X’s or whatever like that and so they cut so much out that I think the movie is only like 70 minutes long. Unfortunately most of the really funny jokes were associated with, you know, gruesome bloodletting of some kind or another. There was a lot of funny shit that was going on.

  Yeah, I think that M.P.A.A., in many respects, comes to the table when the film is a Texas Chainsaw sequel saying, “Alright, let’s take the scissors to this baby.”

  Yeah maybe that’s it. The Halloween [films] or whatever they are… Those kinds of movies get to do as much or more. I don’t really care that much. I mean to me it was just a job and I try to do my best and have fun with it.

  And, as Spencer Tracy said, not bump into the furniture… One of your films that is a personal favorite of mine was The Reflecting Skin. That was a great film.

  Yeah, it was interesting. [Philip Ridley] is a good writer. He’s a guy that I know Hollywood has approached many times. They wanted him to come and do movies like other people wrote. He is just someone who has a particular vision and writes lots of stuff so there’s no reason why he shouldn’t just do his own stuff, but I can understand [why] they’d want him to come to Hollywood and make horror movies. There is an element there, that kind of scary thing going on in his movies and he does it for very little money. [He achieves] the look that a lot of directors can only wish that they could get with much bigger budgets. So, I think that’s why people are interested. I understand that. I did another film with Philip Ridley by the way that had a real cult following in Europe and Japan but never came out here for some kind of contractual [reason]. I don’t know what the hell the deal was. I think it had to do with one of the actor’s contracts. I’m not sure what it was. In any case, it’s out on video. It’s called The Passion of Darkly Noon and that’s visually pretty interesting, too. He had even less time and money and that was a very stressful thing for the director because his producers were not really helpful. They didn’t come through and [weren’t] trying to get him the money and equipment [he needed]. In fact, they still have not even paid him and it’s been years later. Certain producers are no better than gangsters, really. You know he keeps writing and putting on plays in England and one of them came here, The Pitchfork Disney it was called, and that was done in Washington D.C. He’s an interesting guy who’ll keep making stuff. I know he’s trying to get another movie made right now. [He’s] kind of an original.

  Right, well that’s what I think the industry needs is more people who are willing to put their ass on the line…

  Oh yeah.

  …do something different. Otherwise you end up getting these soulless big budget monstrosities.

  Yeah I know. I’ve certainly been part of some of them.

  [laughs]

  Yeah, you gotta pay the rent sometimes.

  A guy’s gotta eat, you know. Um… Indian Runner. How was that?

  You know, it was Sean [Penn’s] first movie [that he directed]. It was an interesting thing. He was kind of throwing himself into it. He had a lot of knowledge stored up. I think he studied and prepared himself really well for it, but you can’t beat first hand experience. I think that was kind of his training ground as a director… so we sort of went to school with him in a way. For being a first time guy he seemed really prepared. I’ve learned a lot since then, but I also learned a lot during that movie and, at the time, that was certainly a very special opportunity, you know? I’d been doing smaller parts in movies and never had a part that was that significant. You can’t count Prison, even though that was a leading role, it was barely a blip on the radar as far as people movies go, in terms of a real character that you get to know to some degree. And it has an arc in the story that you interact with. It had the feel and had the reputation of being just a sort of maverick independent movie, but in fact it was a fifty-four or fifty-five day shoot which is considerable. I mean, its well over two months and locations and a good crew and good equipment. It was just a regular movie with really good actors in it like Sandy Dennis – the late Sandy Dennis. That was her last film role. She’s someone who I really admired, still admire, and it was really one of the things that stand out for me as an honor to get to act with her. I mean it was a good opportunity. The movie didn’t do that well. I think the producers didn’t want to leave it in the theaters and let it build word of mouth. It’s had, fortunately, a kind of second, third, fourth life you know on cable and on video. A lot of people seem to know that movie and it didn’t make a dime. A lot of people like Patricia Arquette really went out and did some important things after that. David Morris… It’s interesting to see Charles Bronson in that kind of role. I don’t know, in a way, it was just like any movie. In a lot of ways, it’s like there were things that were there and things that were taken out and it was put together with a kind of particular vision that Sean had and I think that’s what makes it really interesting. I’ll always be grateful to him and to the guy that got the thing going – Don Phillips, the guy who came to me and asked me to be in it, which was kind of surprising. I just think of that movie as having been a good opportunity, a situation where I learned a lot. At the time, people [would say], “Wow, now you’re on your way and this will get you all this other stuff.” In reality, I don’t think it did, but I learned something doing it and it’s one of the few movies where people seem to think it’s close to being somewhat artistic, I guess.

  Ok how about Crimson Tide? I mean you got to wake up on the mornings of making that and look around and go, “Jesus…”

  Watching Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington was pretty interesting, to be at several scenes when they’re arguing in speeches and stuff. I’d say that’s fun to watch those actors kinda go at it, kinda like a sporting event and I had a front row seat. It was shot near where I live, or I lived at the time, so I could go on my days off up there and they were working and just hang out and watch. Pretty cool, like a free acting class. I mean it’s a lot of times when you get those opportunities you really think, “Well, I’m going to go get some coffee or whatever and there will be other movies,” but, you know, some of those things are one time only. It’s a good thing to watch and stick around [for] even when you’re not required, ‘cause you don’t get a lot of opportunity to see people that are that good…

  Yeah, heavyweights going for it.

  …working up close, and that was certainly true of Gene Hackman and Denzel Washington. You know Gene Hackman is someone who’s been around for a long time, done all kinds of things. I was talking to someone recently about Hackman and we were trying to think of a really bad Gene Hackman Film and we couldn’t do it. He’s always good it doesn’t matter what he’s in. [There are] not a lot of actors like that who, no matter what the material is, you find something.

  We interviewed Greg Widen for The Prophecy when the film came out and I wanted to talk to you a little bit about that film because of your performance in it. Even though you’re playing, literally, the Devil himself, it’s not big, you know wha
t I mean? You’re real subdued and a lot of it, the menacing is so subtle. How did you get there? I mean I wonder how do you go about playing Satan and still make it him enigmatic enough. Play him so that you don’t go for the big mug shots and the big arm gestures and…

  Well, that was weird. That’s a complicated thing in a way – a kind of a puzzle. I mean, every part is a puzzle but this one was different in that [it was] not like other characters [where you] make up a past for them. I mean, literally, where were they born and what were their parents like, what kind of childhood, down to what food, what toothpaste. You can make it all up, which is fun. I mean, some people you don’t need to do that, but it’s fun to do it. It’s kinda like some people, to keep from being nervous at the dentist’s office, read magazines. Until the movie is over, I just try to keep thinking of things that I can think of that are real aspects, real imagined aspects, of this character, of their prior life. How they feel right now about what’s going on. You know, it’s just fun. You know what I mean? It’s kind of like that’s the play part that I enjoy and that I know from experience helps me do a better job, and be more relaxed. But in this case, it’s like playing Santa Claus. I mean, I guess, in some sort of cliché way, Hell is supposed to be hot, but what else do you know? Yes, there is all this stuff in the Bible and you can read every Satanic thing in the world if you want too. It doesn’t matter. Evil is a force. It’s something you can consider and you can debate about whether you believe it really exists or not and all those things, but as a Being, with a past, and knowing how you know… So, it was different in that way. I didn’t have that to go by, but instead of that being a problem I looked at it as being kind of interesting. So then, it limits the things that I can connect with in a real way, what is it that’s human about the way he is behaving, at least in that story. The thing that stood out to me was jealousy; that was a very human emotion. If you’re playing someone who isn’t deluded, but actually has the power to do pretty much anything they wanted, to change forms and disappear entirely, to just get inside of people’s heads and doesn’t have to be afraid of other things that we do, the usual mortal dilemmas that we have, it kinda gives you a freedom. There is no real need to yell and scream and prance around. If you are in charge, [laughs] you know you have it. You don’t have to prove it. You do have to believe that at the moment or certainly I guess in movies make it seem like you do. I mean, I think it’s a psychological switch that you have to try to flip. If you’re given a part and, on the page, it says you know you can do anything you want, you can say anything you want, you can do anything you want, you know what people are thinking, it doesn’t matter what they say or do, [laughs] you know, so you don’t really have to make a big noise about it.

  Right and I think therein lies the menace.

  There were some silly things which I felt were interesting that were cut out of that movie for reasons of whatever, shots didn’t look right, or they wanted to speed the movie up. I think [the studio people] were afraid were too kinda wacky. “It’s the devil, man. You can’t do stuff like that.” I go, “What are you talking about? I can do anything I fuckin’ want.” You know, just odd things that at the time people were laughing at. I mean, Chris Walken was pretty fuckin’ out there and very funny. [He’s] another guy who it doesn’t matter what movie he is in, he is always doing something really interesting. You put him in any situation and something interesting will happen, just by him being there. Anyway, there were some silly things that didn’t make it, but, who knows? I mean, it’s their movie and stuff, but there were certainly enough things there and, for me, it was certainly memorable to have a scene with Chris.

  I’m also curious about G.I. Jane. Did you have any idea that the film was going to be received by the public the way it was? It seemed to be both held as an example of female empowerment, but it was also vilified by certain feminists.

  I didn’t read too extensively on how it was received other than what I heard people say or questions I was asked when I did an interview, but, I think that most of the negative press about it had more to do with Demi Moore as a person or as a perceived public personality than it did with what she was actually doing in the movie or what the movie was about. That was kinda the feeling I had. I don’t know if that’s accurate or not.

  It was playing on HBO recently and, for the first time, I sat down and watched it. I went into it going, “Oh, I don’t know…” with all these reservations because of what I had read. However, after sitting down and watching it, I was surprised to discover that it’s a good film and Ridley Scott… He’s no hack.

  There are certain big studio movie kinda things in it, but that’s the movie it’s made for, but nevertheless, it still has a lot. Obviously Ridley cut the movie and made something interesting out of it. And I thought [Demi] did a good job. I mean there are certain archetypal things about it, but I think we rounded those edges a little bit, [gave it] a little more substance than what it set out to be. Just this mean fuck and this poor woman stuck in the middle of a bunch of mean bastards. You know, I think it was a little more interesting than that.

  And you’ll go down in history as the guy that Demi Moore told to suck her dick.

  Ah, right. [laughs]

  Now, another film I just recently saw you in was A Perfect Murder. Those were your paintings in that film, right?

  Yeah…

  How was that? I mean, you’re working with top flight people, people like Michael Douglas and Gwyneth Paltrow. You get a chance to present an array of your work…

  Yeah I’m surprised they let me do that, actually. There was just a little time before we were going to start and I just asked, “What if I did this myself?” I showed them a couple of small samples and they said sure if I made this bigger and I said ok. So it was one of those things where you’re at a job interview and they go can you speak Chinese, because if you can speak Chinese you’ve got the job, you’ve got the benefits. And, of course, you go, “Yeah sure.” You’ll water ski or whatever.

  Right, “I can ride a horse…”

  Then, you just figure you’ll figure out how to speak Chinese between now and next Wednesday. Well maybe it’s not that extreme… I like to draw and stuff but, the reason they used photography in it was because that was something that I did know and I had a certain stock pile of images I could play with. That helped.

  Well, I think the other thing that was interesting was that, because your work has an intensity to it, it wordlessly gave your character more of an edge. Now if you had been painting kids with big eyes or bunnies, it would have been one thing, but instead there was this dark intensity to the work and therefore the character had that element of his personality right out of the gate.

  Hmm. Yeah, that’s good. Yeah, I didn’t know what. I can think of one or two [pieces] that they showed. I can’t remember which ones that you sort of see. I couldn’t be that objective about it because I had filled that whole loft area with 40 paintings or something and I don’t know how many there were but there were a lot. There were probably that many you know all around, stacked, but they were in the shadows. The ones that were featured were certain ones that seemed appropriate at the time. My interest was just to make sure they seemed like something that you know a fledgling artist would make. I thought it would be interesting if he had some ability here, there was something going on, rather than just some kind of generic thing and because I was playing a fictional artist, I thought it should be something you weren’t familiar with. They were cool about it, so it was great.

  I’m curious about one last thing… You’re working on Psycho. Now that’s getting a lot of press. Some of it is good some of it bad. I’m hearing that the tide is turning and people are starting to get behind that film.

  Yeah, people are really curious about it. I’m pleasantly surprised that people seem to be more curious about that movie than pretty much anything else right now, which is unusual. November/December is when you get all these big Oscar [contenders] and people seem to be as int
erested in what Psycho’s going to be as they are in anything else, which is interesting. I wonder how it applies to people who haven’t seen the movie or people who are younger and used to seeing horror. I don’t know what you’d call it. I mean. I don’t know when people see movies like that now. A movie called Psycho, if it were made today, you know, somebody would have to get killed with a hammer.

  [laughs] Yeah they’d end up looking like… I don’t know if you’re familiar with William Lustig, but he did films like Maniac in the 70’s with scalpings and shotgun blasts to the face.

  Yeah, yeah, yeah.

  It would have to be something like that.

  It would have to be just a real blood fest and you know obviously Psycho isn’t that.

  It’s amazing. The Hitchcock version was playing on Starz or Encore or something and I have a thirteen year old and we sat down and watched it. He was like “I went into this not wanting to like this,” but it grew on him. We recently went to go see John Carpenter’s new film Vampires and they ran an ad for it and it was interesting to watch someone that young, having seen the original, have his interest piqued because the ads anyway aren’t showing it to be a literal um… I’m trying to say they seem to be taking a different tack on it which is good, because I know Gus Van Sant was getting a lot of heat early on forever wanting to do it.