A Guy's Guide to Being a Man's Man

by Frank Vincent

  Now, being the coolest DJ in the country is just the latest chapter in Steven Van Zandt’s long and distinguished musical career. His two-hour syndicated radio show, Little Steven’s Underground Garage, continues to garner rave reviews. The program, which launched with twenty-three affiliates, has grown to an extraordinary 143 affiliates in 197 markets across the United States and Canada, and is only halfway through its third year. Additionally, the show is broadcast weekly on the Voice of America Music Mix Channel in forty-three different countries. Now those are what I call some man’s man statistics! He’s also an executive producer of The Wiseguy Show, a weekly talk show that features host Vincent Pastore. If there’s anybody more qualified to answer some man’s man music questions, I’d like to meet him.

  Frank Vincent: Who do you qualify as a man’s man musician from yesteryear?

  Steven Van Zandt: You have to start with the original man’s man himself, Frank Sinatra. I’ve just written a foreword to Rolling Stone’s new book, The 500 Greatest Albums of All Time. Even though Rolling Stone is a contemporary publication, in that foreword I talk about Frank Sinatra being the first man to do the “concept album.” Sinatra made full use of the art form of the album because, as you know, growing up there was nothing but singles, and most of the albums of that era were best-selling compilations of singles. In 1955, Sinatra did a concept album called In the Wee Small Hours of the Morning. Very consciously and deliberately, he not only put together a coherent and consistent record, but also delivered a sequence of songs that told a story throughout. Sinatra was a true visionary.

  FV: And “The Chairman of the Board” did it on a two-track machine.

  SVZ: Yes, in those days they recorded like real men’s men.

  FV: I recorded with Paul Anka and sixty men on a four-track machine.

  SVZ: There you go. There were no tricks or gimmicks in recording back then like they have today. Now, aside from Sinatra being the greatest singer of all time, everything he did became a classic and became his. I bet you half of the things he did were covers of hit songs before him that nobody remembers. But the reason why nobody remembers the original is because when Sinatra covered a song, he owned it.

  STEVEN VAN ZANDT

  Favorite Man’s Man Band:

  Bruce Springsteen and

  The E Street Band

  Favorite Up-and-Coming

  Man’s Man Band:

  Boss Martians (out of Seattle)

  Favorite Man’s Man

  Album to Make Love to:

  Kind of Blue (Miles Davis)

  Favorite Man’s Man

  Song to Drink to:

  “One for My Baby” (Frank Sinatra)

  Favorite Man’s Man

  City to Perform In:

  Rome, Italy

  FV: You’re absolutely right.

  SVZ: That was how distinctive Sinatra was as an artist. He is one of the very few craftsman you could call an artist. Technically, an artist is someone who writes his or her own stuff. As we know, Sinatra did not write his own stuff, but he came as close as you can come to that. When Sinatra sang a song, he communicated the emotion so clearly that it was like rewriting the song.

  FV: He probably inspired more singers than anyone in the world. Fine performers like Vic Damone, Tony Bennett, Bobby Darin, Dean Martin, and so many more all owe a debt to Sinatra.

  SVZ: Yes. First you look at Sinatra as an artist, but you also have to look at him as a human being and he was a force of nature. He was a leader and a visionary in everyday life, and his actions affected everyone. For instance, he took on racism full steam. Sinatra went to Las Vegas and made them let Sammy Davis Jr. stay in the same hotel as the white performers. That doesn’t seem like a big deal now, but believe me, back then it was huge. Sinatra took on our entire society. Now, that’s a man’s man!

  FV: What about a man’s man musician of today?

  SVZ: The equivalent to someone like Sinatra today would have to be a Bruce Springsteen. Bruce comes immediately to my mind. Now, I am not totally unbiased here, but I can also be objective to some degree. Bruce is another person who has never compromised in his own life. He didn’t exactly fit in when he started out in music, but Bruce redefined what the mainstream was in approximately the same way Sinatra did. Bruce also broke racial barriers by having two black guys in the band. And, of course, he was a man’s man by having Clarence right up front and making a statement. He not only had Clarence representing a multiracial band and communicating that type of brotherhood, but also having a saxophone in a modern rock band was a radical move, too! It was saying that we should not forget the past, because the sax was associated with the past and oldies. Every single record of the 1950s and the first half of the ’60s, up until the Beatles, had a saxophone solo.

  FV: When I was playing, I always had a saxophone in my band. I had a piano quartet, but with a saxophone featured every single time.

  SVZ: Exactly. That’s the way music was up until the Beatles. So, by Bruce putting Clarence in such a prominent position, he was saying that rock ’n’ roll was a continuum. It’s past, present, and future. There’s a strong line of heritage going from the very beginning into the future and we should never forget that. Bruce did so many important things.

  FV: What originally influenced you to get into music?

  SVZ: For me, it was the “British Invasion,” as they called it back then. It was the Beatles and the Rolling Stones. I’ve always been a band guy—I was not big on solo artists when I was younger. Later on, I grew to appreciate Sinatra, Elvis Presley, and the others. But as a kid, I just liked bands. The Beatles and the Rolling Stones changed everything because up until then, we had singing groups or instrumental groups or individuals like Chuck Berry, Bo Diddley, Little Richard, Buddy Holly, and people like that. There were no bands who wrote, sang, and played. There was no such thing. Technically, the Crickets was the first one and its leader, Buddy Holly, evolved out of that group very quickly and became more famous than the group itself. The Beatles really changed everything! Rock ’n’ roll is really about bands, where pop music is about solo artists. Bands communicate friendship, brotherhood, and community, and that’s what has always appealed to me. The Beatles broke the mold by playing their own instruments and writing their own songs. They played in places like Hamburg, Germany for twelve hours at a time, that’s how they got so good. Not like today’s wannabes who pretend they can play on MTV.

  FV: Bill Ramal, my musical mentor, started me as a studio player. Do you have a musical mentor?

  SVZ: I don’t have just one mentor. There are certain ones I have for writing, singing, and guitar playing. As a guitar player, I would have to start with Eric Clapton. Clapton changed the entire nature of guitar in the modern world. I wrote an article about him for Rolling Stone magazine, pointing out that he was truly the one who made the guitar prominent in rock ’n’ roll, as far as the lead guitar player goes. For a while, the lead guitar player was more important than the singer and that was because of Clapton. He took all the Black American blues guys and made their kind of stuff important. The English did a great service to us by giving us back our own music. The British Invasion of ’64 and ’65 was essentially a bunch of British guys listening to American rhythm and blues and interpreting it their way, and then giving it back to us in our own country. I didn’t know who Chuck Berry or Bo Diddley were. These amazing British bands introduced us to them. As a guitar player, Eric Clapton really introduced us to our own heroes in American music.

  FV: “The Boss,” Bruce Springsteen, is on my list of musical legends. How did you start working with him?

  SVZ: Ed Sullivan’s CBS program aired on Sunday nights and it was the most watched television show of that era. Of course, now we watch The Sopranos instead. (Laughing). The Beatles played The Ed Sullivan Show and the next day, America went from no such thing as a band to everybody being in a band. Bands began rehearsing in their garages. (Hence the term garage band.) Now, even though everybody had a band, very few could
make money doing it. Those of us who did, and there must have been eight or ten bands in our New Jersey Shore area, knew each other. Bruce came from Freehold and I came from Middle-town, and we were on a circuit playing teenage clubs. It was a good time to grow up because there were a lot of places to play and be heard. We had beach clubs, high school dances, VFW halls, and teenage nightclubs. Bruce and I ran into each other a lot and became friendly. We played together in the late ’60s and early ’70s. Then, in 1972, Bruce finally landed a record deal. I joined the band for his third album, Born to Run. Basically, in those days, if you were in a band you became friends. In fact, if you had long hair, you were friends! There were so few freaks around back then that we gravitated to each other. (Laughing) That’s how Bruce and I first became friends, in 1965 or so.

  FV: How does a man’s man musician conduct himself on the road?

  SVZ: A man’s man is someone who works hard, but also plays hard. So, you’ve got to give everything you’ve got onstage, but after the show, in the old days, if a beautiful girl wanted to show her appreciation, well, you took your inspiration wherever you could find it to keep you going.

  FV: (Laughing) Until the next town, right?

  SVZ: (Laughing) Of course, all that was before I got married. I’ve been happily married for twenty-four years. Now that’s a real man’s man!

  FV: A sign of a man’s man is someone who keeps going no matter what the circumstances are. Did you ever have moments in your career where you had doubt and things didn’t go as planned?

  SVZ: Every single day. Right now, I’m engaged in a revolution of trying to bring rock ’n’ roll back. It’s a fight every day. I woke up five years ago and realized there wasn’t any new rock ’n’ roll being played on the radio at all. The ’50s music was being eliminated from the oldies stations and the ’60s music was being eliminated from the classic rock stations. Also, there were no record companies signing any new rock ’n’ roll bands. After thirty years of being in the mainstream, we disappeared. I put together a two-hour syndicated radio show, which we had to fight to get on. We fought to get on twenty stations and now, three years later, we’re in 200 markets. I also have two channels we program on Sirius Satellite Radio. We’re winning the war, but it’s a battle because hip-hop, heavy metal, and pop music took over. I feel our children should have more choices, not less. So, I decided to do something about it. Men’s men don’t stop and feel sorry for themselves. We just keep going, right, Frank?

  FV: Absolutely, Stevie! The sign of a man’s man is someone who can reinvent himself. How did you make the transition from music to acting?

  SVZ: It was a matter of one phone call. David Chase phoned me and said he wanted me to be in his new television show. I said, “David, there are three problems. Number one, I’m not an actor. Number two, I don’t want to be an actor. Number three, if I wanted to be an actor, why would I want to be on TV?” David replied, “No, I’m putting together a different kind of show, and I don’t want to use the same faces everyone sees all the time.” I told David to send the script. To be honest, I wasn’t taking it very seriously. Anyway, I read the script and it was terrific! Then I got the part. At that point in my life, the mid ’90s, I had walked away from music. I couldn’t relate to it anymore—I felt it was time to do something else, but I had no idea what it was going to be. Destiny spoke! Once I got the part, I took it very seriously. I reread every single book written about gangsters. I also watched every gangster movie again. I found out where John Gotti got his clothes made. I did everything possible to create my character. I wrote a biography of my character, and discussed it with the writers on the show. I did everything I could do.

  FV: You had to believe yourself.

  SVZ: Yes, I had to look in the mirror and see somebody else. Being a musician my whole life, I knew who I was. But, this was different. I had to look completely different. I had to be unrecognizable physically to myself, and that would help me mentally be the part of Silvio. It really worked. I knew that when I walked out of that trailer, I would be acting with some very serious talent, like yourself. I wanted to hold up my end, and I wanted to live up to David Chase’s faith in me.

  FV: You’re a modern-day Renaissance man. You write, act, produce, sing, and play instruments. How do you do it all and do it so well?

  SVZ: I grew up in the ’50 and ’60s, which was a true renaissance period. I believe the ’50s and ’60s will be studied for years to come. The quality of the arts was so high back then that if you grew up during that period, you measure yourself by those standards. Whether it’s Sinatra and those guys, or The Beatles and those guys, or the Brandos, Cagneys, and those guys, it sets a very high standard in your own mind. To tell you the truth, one of my biggest regrets in life is that I’ve had very little output. If you look at my whole life, I have had very little productivity. However, the upside is, when I finally get around to doing something, it is usually good. I guess somewhere along the line I decided if I have to choose, I’m going with quality over quantity. It takes a lot of time to do something right. A man’s man says to himself, If it’s not great, then why bother doing it?

  FV: Sounds like a man’s man to me!

  SVZ: Frank, I wake up every day attempting to achieve greatness of some kind. Whether I make it or not, that’s irrelevant. But, I fully intend to change the world every day.

  Visiting Vegas Like a Man’s Man

  Las Vegas is the ultimate vacation spot, one of the busiest destinations in the entire world. In 2005, approximately 40 million tourists visited the desert hotspot. This once barren desert was first developed by mob interests in the 1940s, but is now a land of corporate hotel resorts that are spending big time to show you a great time. Now, I consider Las Vegas to be the ultimate man’s man destination. Why? Because of the gambling, entertainment, women, restaurants, clubs—all the things we really enjoy.

  The women in Vegas are some of the most beautiful in the world. But, always make sure you are talking to the ones who are filing 1099s at the end of the year. How does a man’s man know if he’s talking to a woman and not a “woman of the night”? If you ask the woman you’re talking to where she’s staying and she says, “I’m staying at the MGM Grand for the weekend,” you’re safe. If you ask her where she’s staying and she replies, “I’m staying at the Motel Grand for the next forty-five minutes,” turn and quickly walk away. Also, a man’s man

  only hangs out at the current hot spots. For instance, you’ll certainly find him playing blackjack at the Hard Rock Hotel Casino; however, you won’t find him at the Liberace Museum. You see, a man’s man spends his time in Sin City wisely. Vegas is like no other place in the world, and a man’s man has to make sure that when he gets there he has a one-of-a-kind vacation!

  TOP FIVE MAN’S MAN VEGAS FLICKS

  1. Casino: (1995; dir: Martin Scorsese; cast: Robert De Niro, Joe Pesci, Sharon Stone, Frank Vincent)

  2. Bugsy (1991; dir: Barry Levinson; cast: Warren Beatty, Annette Bening, Harvey Keitel, Ben Kingsley)

  3. Oceans 11 (1960; dir: Lewis Milestone; cast: Frank Sinatra, Dean Martin, Sammy Davis, Jr., Peter Lawford, Joey Bishop)

  4. Leaving Las Vegas (1995; dir: Mike Figgis; cast: Nicolas Cage, Elisabeth Shue)

  5. Oceans Eleven (2001; dir: Steven Soderbergh; cast: George Clooney, Julia Roberts, Andy Garcia, Brad Pitt, Matt Damon, Don Cheadle)

  I first went to Las Vegas in 1972. I went for pure pleasure, and I had a blast. Then, in 1994, I got a chance to go back to Vegas when Martin Scorsese cast me as Frankie Marino in Casino. When I got the script, I knew it was going to be a lot of fun. Why? Because we would be shooting in Las Vegas for four months straight! However, I also knew the film was going to be a lot of hard work. First of all, shooting a film in a casino is one of the most difficult feats in cinema. Being the man’s man he is, Scorsese was definitely up to the challenge. It’s certainly not easy to capture Vegas on film, but I think Scorsese did a masterful job. We shot nights at the famous Riviera Hotel. In fac
t, that’s where I first met Steve Schirripa (Bobby Bacala from The Sopranos). At that time, Steve was the entertainment director of the Riviera. I have great memories from filming that movie. I think it’s the number-one man’s man film ever shot in Las Vegas.

  While we were filming Casino, I definitely did some gambling during my off time. How could you not? In Vegas, there are slot machines in the supermarkets! I’m surprised they don’t have slot machines in the bathroom stalls so you can play when you’re sitting on the can. I love to play craps (no pun intended). The game has constant action. You can put yourself in for a thousand dollars, or even just a hundred dollars, and if someone hits a thirty-minute roll, you could pick yourself up a half a million dollars just like that! Once I was at a craps table in Vegas with two kids who had driven down from Northern California in their $50 car and gotten married. The young girl had just $5 on the pass line. Now, I am going to be dead honest with you—this girl shot the dice for an hour and forty-five minutes straight. She made one guy $250,000 and he threw her $10,000. Then, each of his buddies made some very good money as well, so they threw her $5,000. These kids made $40,000 on $5. What numbers! These kids had never seen so much money in their lives. You know what they said? “We’re going to go home and buy ourselves a trailer!” That’s what Vegas does, it makes dreams come true.