ADOLPH GREEN
I’ll never forget, it must be almost ten years ago, we went to some event with Groucho, after which there was a large gathering at a restaurant. It had something to do with a big Off-Broadway theatre group. It was a restaurant in the East Eighties. Maybe this is a pointless story, since I remember no names. The only thing I remember is that I was so bowled over by the fact that when we came in with Groucho, the place went mad! They were just shaking with excitement.
BETTY COMDEN
But it wasn’t like just walking into a restaurant, because there were people like Mike Nichols and George Segal there. We have shared many, many things together with Groucho. In fact, I remember we even invited Groucho to the first run-through of Bells Are Ringing…
ADOLPH GREEN
It wasn’t even a run-through. It was a rehearsal.
BETTY COMDEN
That’s right. He was in New York, and he was so interested in what we were doing. He felt kind of concerned always, and we asked him to come by. He was the first person to see Bells Are Ringing outside of the people in the cast.
ADOLPH GREEN
There was about an hour cut out of Bells Are Ringing after Groucho saw it.
BETTY COMDEN
Steve, my husband, says when Groucho went backstage to see Judy Holliday, after the performance when the show was running, Steve and he were waiting in the little anteroom outside the dressing room. Judy said, “Just a minute, I’ll be out soon.” There was an ironing board there where her dresser had been ironing, so Groucho said to Steve, “Quick, take your trousers off right away!” So Steve took his trousers off right away. Groucho put them on the ironing board and was pressing as Judy came out. A sight to behold.
ADOLPH GREEN
Truth to tell, to repeat myself, Groucho is one of those things that makes it a pleasure to have had some degree of success. It’s been a dream come true knowing him. As a kid I saw him in vaudeville. I saw them at the Palace. I saw Animal Crackers about a dozen times when it came out. The Marx Brothers, especially Groucho, became embedded in my mind, a part of my thinking day and night, my approach to life and humor. It’s so astonishing these days to hear kids, my kids or other kids, who know all the old Marx Brothers lines, and can zip them off.
BETTY COMDEN
I must say that, as a girl, a female, to have his admiration is very lovely for me. I just love the fact that he likes me, that he likes to see me, and that we get along so well. I enjoy that relationship so much.
I
I saw your picture from Groucho over there. He’s written “To my secret love” on it.
BETTY COMDEN
I keep it on the mantel.
ADOLPH GREEN
He still sees a lot of people.
BETTY COMDEN
A lot of young people.
I
There’s a very wide age range.
BETTY COMDEN
He’s kept active, always doing new things. I remember when he came east to do Time for Elizabeth. Then he came here to do his evening at Carnegie Hall. We saw that. Adolph and I did a series of pictures for Esquire once about the movies. We posed as all the stars. We did a Garbo and Gilbert thing, a Scarlett O’Hara and Rhett Butler, and a whole bunch of them. And we did Groucho and Margaret Dumont. But I played Groucho, and Adolph played Margaret Dumont.
I
Did you ever think about writing anything for Groucho?
ADOLPH GREEN
We wouldn’t dream of it! We wouldn’t dare. I remember one time when Groucho came to our apartment for dinner. Our son Adam, who was about four, used to do Chaplin imitations. And he came down with a derby, mustache, and cane. Groucho turned to him and, half angry, said, “At least you could have done me when I came here!”
I
Has Groucho changed much over the years?
BETTY COMDEN
I think his basic qualities are immutable, unchanged. He’s funny and endearing and warm.
ADOLPH GREEN
I think in general he’s less inclined to anger. Maybe he can’t waste his emotion and strength on being angry as much. But I never knew him to shout.
BETTY COMDEN
He would get incensed about things, but I can’t remember what. Do you remember anything that could get him mad?
ADOLPH GREEN
Politics, both political and studio, and people he thought were idiots.
BETTY COMDEN
He always speaks of Harpo with such affection and love.
ADOLPH GREEN
I wish I’d known Harpo better. I met him a few times. He seemed to be a man of lovely qualities, a real gentleman.
BETTY COMDEN
Groucho used to think about us quite a lot, I know, because I remember he recommended something to us for a show. He was the first to mention Gypsy to us. He had read an excerpt from it somewhere, and he said, “There’s a show in this.”
ADOLPH GREEN
He said, “It’s a terrific show.”
BETTY COMDEN
“You ought to go and get after this,” he said. On the basis of it, we did get hold of the book. We didn’t do Gypsy, but I wish he’d do this more often!
ADOLPH GREEN
Right. I wish we’d followed through then. We did have the rights to it, then we got involved in some other work and relinquished them.
I
Groucho really loves those performances you give when you come to his house or to his parties.
ADOLPH GREEN
Well, we have to! We have to come through. It’s not even a command. It’s “Or else!” We’d better come through!
I
(To Betty) One of Groucho’s favorite stories, which he often tells when your name occurs, is how you used to get a seat on the subway by stuffing books under your clothes.
BETTY COMDEN
I used to stand in the subway and try to look pregnant. It’s the way to get a seat in a crowded subway car.
ADOLPH GREEN
He really likes that. He tells it all the time.
BETTY COMDEN
I’m famous for that. It’s a very attractive story for me because he tells it.
GRACE KAHN
“I thought I might be going to work at Sears Roebuck. I didn’t know I could play piano well enough,” Grace Kahn told me when I visited her at her Beverly Hills home.
Born in Brooklyn, when she was one her family moved to Elgin, Illinois. At fifteen, she went to Chicago, looking for work. “I was trying to sell something I had written, a piece of ragtime which was really terrible. But the man I played it for liked the way I played the piano and offered me a job. I accompanied the musicians who came in and was a song plugger.”
When she met Gus Kahn, they became collaborators, though she is modest about her part of the collaboration. They wrote songs like, “Oh, How That Woman Could Cook!” one of Groucho’s favorites.
Grace Kahn had known Groucho since her teens, even before she met Gus Kahn. They remained friends from that time on, and “family” since her daughter Irene married Groucho’s son, Arthur. Grace remembered Groucho always saying to her and Gus, “When are you two kids gonna get married?”
“He really believed in marriage,” she told me.
Grace Kahn recalled “Arthur at seven and Miriam at four when we lived back to back. We lived on Arden, and they lived on Hillcrest. They were in our house practically all of the time and were darling little children. I was very fond of Arthur.” After Arthur grew up and married young Irene Kahn, Groucho and Grace Kahn had grandchildren Steve and Andy in common. The marriage ended when Arthur fell in love with his sister-in-law, Lois, who was married to Irene’s brother. Arthur married Lois, and Irene later married someone else.
A few weeks older than Groucho, Grace Kahn was still pretty, petite, her face framed by soft white hair when I saw her. We met in her house filled with musical memorabilia. Gus Kahn’s sheet music was on the piano.
On the walls were the charcoals and paintings that she had d
one over the years. She pointed out a painting of a bouquet of flowers. “Someone gave me that beautiful bouquet of flowers, and I knew it would wilt, so I painted it to preserve it.”
When not playing golf, she could still be found at her piano, collaborating with her grandson, Andy Marx.
On Groucho’s eighty-fifth birthday, she called to wish him a happy birthday:
“He was very pleased. Then I said to him, ‘You know, Groucho, I always thought you didn’t think I was pretty. You didn’t talk to me like you did to girls you thought were pretty.’ And Groucho said, ‘You’re pretty now.’”
I
When did you first meet Groucho?
GRACE KAHN
When I was about twenty years old, I worked for a music publisher in Chicago, a firm called Jerome H. Remick. I was what you called a song plugger. I was, I think, the only song plugger that they ever had. Evidently, I must have been a pretty good one, because I could get people to sing songs, and it wasn’t too hard. Now, at this point Groucho was doing an act in Grand Rapids, something in vaudeville, so my boss sent me to Grand Rapids to get Groucho to sing a song when he arrived in Chicago. Groucho liked the song, and when he got to Chicago he sang it.
Now, this was my introduction to Groucho: I was only twenty, and I didn’t even know Gus then. I rapped at the door, Groucho said, “Come in,” so I came in. When he saw it was a girl, I think he was rather surprised. He said, “Sit down,” so I sat down. He said, “Have a cigar,” and I said, “No, thank you.” I told him who I was and that I had this song I wanted him to hear, and he said, “Well, fine. Go ahead and play it.” I played it, and he said, “I like it. Very nice. How would you like to take a bath?” He had to take a shower. I said, “No, thank you.” Well, anyway, we became very friendly, and when he got to Chicago I came to see him, and he was doing this song.
Now this was, as I said, before Gus. In later years, when Groucho’s son was about seven, we met again, and this time we met with Gus. Gus and Groucho really became very good friends. We were friends through all those years, except when Groucho was on the road and then we didn’t see him. Sometimes we didn’t see him for almost a year. But we did become very, very good friends and remained so. My daughter, Irene, was married to Groucho’s son, Arthur. Gus and I and Groucho and Ruth lived back to back, our gardens almost came together. I’ve known Arthur since he was seven years old. He and my daughter went to school together. But they were divorced. So, this broke up the family a little, but Groucho and I always remained friends. Unfortunately, Gus died in 1941, which is a long time ago.
I
Do you remember the song you were plugging when you met Groucho?
GRACE KAHN
Yes, I certainly do. “Sailin’ Away on the Henry Clay,” that was the name of the song. They’d travel around the country for about a year in those days, and Groucho kept the song on for all that time. Then after Gus, he, and I became good friends, Gus and I wrote a song for him, a funny song which he sang last night. You heard him sing “Oh, How That Woman Could Cook!” Well, Gus and I wrote that before we were even married, so you know how long ago that was.
I
Groucho always sings that song.
GRACE KAHN
He sings it wherever he is. He’s so funny, you know. On his birthday I called him, and I said, “I want to wish you a happy birthday on your real birthday. But you never wished me a happy birthday, and my birthday was a week ago.” He said, “Oh, if I had only known that, I’d have come over and sung your song to you!” He loves to perform.
I
Did Groucho always like to perform that much?
GRACE KAHN
Oh, he could perform every five seconds, no matter where he was. If there was a piano, there he was singing, and the songs were funny, too. Now, the song I got him to sing was not a funny song, so that was quite a feather in my cap. It was just a straight song, but he did it for a long time.
I
Was Groucho very different when he was young?
GRACE KAHN
He’s different now. You know how old he is. But his mind is still funny; he still says funny things. I wish I knew more stories, but I really can’t think of stories, only a nice association with him all these years.
I
Did you ever meet his mother, Minnie?
GRACE KAHN
Of course. As I recall, Minnie really was the backbone of the whole thing. She kept the act together. Now, he had a father, too. He always used to kid about his father, but I never met him. When I met Groucho, he wasn’t married yet. I think we got married almost at the same time he did. His wife was in the chorus. She was a beautiful, beautiful girl, and a nice one. We were very friendly for a long time. My daughter Irene and Ruth became good friends until Ruth died. I met Ruth at the same time I met Groucho. She was also in the show in Grand Rapids.
I
Was Groucho always the Groucho character? Is it his real self?
GRACE KAHN
Yes, he’d always been himself. I think that’s why he was named Groucho. He used to come to our house all the time, and he was always funny, onor offstage. He was just as funny off as he was on. As I say, he and I, we get along just great, and I’m really very fond of Groucho. I was also very fond of his brother Harpo. Harpo was such a gentleman. Harpo could have traveled in the most gentlemanly circles. The other brothers were…what shall I say? Characters. Chico was a character. He was an extreme in every way. He was the opposite of any of them. He did everything; he liked to gamble, he liked everything, but was very lovable.
I
What do you think was the secret of his great charm? Groucho still ponders it.
GRACE KAHN
I think it was his love for people. He really had great warmth.
I
Groucho always wondered what was Chico’s great secret with women—why women loved him so much. Groucho said I would have to ask a woman.
GRACE KAHN
Because he was a warm, warm person. I mean Harpo was warm, but in a gentlemanly way. But Chico, the moment you met him, you had to like him. Now, Groucho was always caustic, even if he didn’t mean it. I don’t know what made him that way, but he had to say something sharp. I don’t mean derogatory, really, but now what would you call it? Repartee? He could be caustic. Half the time he may not have meant it. But not everyone understood. Then he’d turn around and do some of the sweetest things.
I
Did any of the sharp things Groucho said ever bother you?
GRACE KAHN
No, it never bothered me because I used to tell him off.
I
You could because of the respect Groucho has for you.
GRACE KAHN
And I have respect for him too. But when I thought he said things that were out of line, especially in front of my friends who don’t understand those things, then I had to stop him a little bit. Now, I never heard Harpo say one word that would ever hurt anybody. I don’t even remember hearing Chico—who was funny, very funny—I never heard him say anything to hurt anybody. Sometimes, I think Groucho’s almost ashamed to say anything sweet.
ANDY MARX
Before lunch at Groucho’s, June Banker, of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, was introduced by Groucho to his grandson Andy:
“Have you met my grandson Steve?”
For years this was a private joke of Groucho’s. Steve is Andy’s older brother, although Groucho said that Andy’s older brother is “Amos.”
Andy, who is a composer, is also a grandson of Gus and Grace Kahn, and his father is writer Arthur Marx. An excellent pianist, Andy often accompanied Groucho at parties.
Groucho and I had lunch with Andy and June shortly after he had received his Oscar. Nurse Julie was also there. As he regularly did, Groucho counseled Andy against a man getting married too young:
GROUCHO
I was thirty when I got married. You don’t want to get married now.
ANDY
Yeah, b
ut there are people who’ve gotten married in their twenties who did all right. You’ve been married three times. What went wrong?
GROUCHO
To marry beauty isn’t enough. I married three of them. And each one was a disaster.
ANDY
When did you find that out?
GROUCHO
After I divorced them.
ANDY
What should you have looked for?
GROUCHO
I should have looked for a girl who is very smart.
JUNE BANKER
Weren’t any of your wives very intelligent?
GROUCHO
No. That wasn’t what I looked for. And beauty fades.
ANDY
But how do you know when to do it? How long should you wait?
GROUCHO
You certainly shouldn’t get married until you can support a girl.
ANDY
I can. I’ve supported two girls. I had one on each shoulder.
GROUCHO
(Not amused) That’s a good joke, but it doesn’t make any sense. So, I’m gonna look at TV for a while. (But he doesn’t leave) I remember when I first met Andy Marx. He was a big clout then.
ANDY
Know how much I weighed when Groucho met me? Twelve pounds when I was born. I even had glasses on.
GROUCHO
You were born with glasses on? Well, you could see through life, I think. (To June and me) I remember him when he was about ten years old. He used to come for Christmas, but I didn’t give him anything.
I
I don’t think that’s true.
ANDY
No, he always gave me something.
GROUCHO
I remember one Christmas what I got. I hung up my stocking, and I got a half orange and half a banana.
I
Were you disappointed?
GROUCHO
No, I was very happy with them. I was very simple. And I got a watch for my bar mitzvah. A gold watch. Which turned green the third week.
ANDY
I never had a bar mitzvah. I’m thinking about going back and having it done now.
GROUCHO
Why not? I’ll give you a Groucho watch.
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