Beyond Heaven and Earth

by Steven H. Propp

  The minister saw him approaching, and gave him a warm smile and a very firm handshake, saying, “How are you doing, friend? I’m Pastor Louis Conley, and it’s a pleasure to meet you.”

  “Nice to meet you, too; my name is Jobran Winter.”

  Pastor Conley pulled at his chin thoughtfully, “That name seems familiar…hmm…wait! Aren’t you…”

  “I wrote you a letter just over a week ago.”

  Pastor Conley smiled. “That’s it. And I see that you accepted my invitation— in the tract I sent to you—to come worship with us.”

  Jobran thought a moment before replying, “I accepted your invitation, yes.”

  With a sly look, Pastor Conley asked, “I take it this was your first time in a Pentecostal church?”

  Jobran gave a laugh, and said, “You can tell I’m a ‘newcomer,’ huh?”

  Pastor Conley gave a friendly laugh, and said, “Absolutely; you weren’t ‘Lifting up holy hands’ in worship—1st Timothy 2:8—like everyone else in church was.” He gave Jobran a friendly pat on the shoulder, then added, “Makes you stand out like a sore thumb, friend.” Indicating a pew in the front row, he said, “Listen, why don’t we have a seat while we talk?” He took out his handkerchief and wiped his forehead, and said, “After forty minutes of being on my feet preachin’, I need to sit down a spell.” Jobran followed and accepted the seat, which was directly facing the vacant pulpit.

  Jobran said, “Actually, this is my second time being in a Pentecostal church. I sent a letter similar to the one I wrote you to the Calvary New Life Christian Fellowship—which I understand is the largest Protestant church in town, as well as Pentecostal—and I got back a whole packet of stuff: A booklet, an audiotape, a brochure about their school, schedules for all of their small group meetings and Bible studies, and an overview of their website; it was kind of overwhelming.” He paused, remembering, then said, “They had a very interesting service—and the music was great—but I was looking for something a little less ‘professional,’ and more ‘face-to-face.’” He looked around the church, and said, “Then when I passed by here while I was walking back from the bus stop one day, I thought I might as well inquire here, since you’re practically right down the street.”

  Pastor Conley shook his head, but had a small satisfied smile on his face. “Well, I love my Christian brethren in those ‘megachurches,’ but I think they’ve gotten too far away from the simplicity of what God showed us in the New Testament.” Opening his Bible, Pastor Conley said, “In the New Testament, there is no such thing as a megachurch. The Greek word for ‘church’ is ekkl?sia, which is just a word for the local congregation of believers; it isn’t a building—in fact, the Book of Acts tells us that local believers often just met in someone’s house.” He looked around the interior of the church, which—while spotlessly clean—was rather “spare” and unadorned, almost Spartan in its simplicity. “That’s why our congregation tends to think that—even though we don’t have a school, or a basketball court, or a bookstore, or a recording studio, or ten ministers on the staff— we’re actually following the Biblical model more closely.” Pastor Conley then closed his Bible, put his hand gently on Jobran’s shoulder, and said, “Brother Winter, I wanted to tell you how sorry I am about the loss of your wife. I’m sure that you loved her very much. But I’m glad that you’ve taken this step, and that you’re here in the house of God today. I believe that all a man needs to do is take that first step, and then God will meet him, and lift and help him the rest of the way.” He reached behind the pew, and pulled out a Bible, which he handed to Jobran, opening his own Bible and saying, “I’d like to share a verse with you from the book of Psalms, chapter 30.”

  Jobran gave an inward smile (feeling like he was being “tested,” but he accepted the challenge), and opened the Bible about one-half of the way through, and began searching efficiently for the selected book. “Second Chronicles; that’s the historical books…whoops: Isaiah; that’s the major prophets, that’s too far…Psalms, here we are. Chapter 30, you said?”

  Pastor Conley nodded, looking pleased. “It’s always good to see a man that knows his way around the Bible. In verse 5, we read, ‘Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning.’ Then in verse 11 we read, ‘Thou hast turned for me my mourning into dancing: thou hast put off my sackcloth, and girded me with gladness.’” He then closed the Bible, and said, “God often uses times of sorrow to test us; but he promises that if we remain faithful to Him, He will see us through.”

  “So I’ve heard,” Jobran said, with a noncommittal expression.

  Pastor Conley looked Jobran directly in the eyes, and said, “Are you a born-again Christian?”

  “By your standard, no,” Jobran replied.

  “It’s not ‘my’ standard, son; it’s God’s standard,” Pastor Conley responded. “I see that you know your Bible pretty well; do you believe the Bible?”

  “Depends on what you mean by ‘believe.’”

  Pastor Conley nodded, as if he had found out all that he needed to know. “Mr. Winter—do you mind if I call you ‘Jobran’?—you know what I think? I think that your being here this morning is no coincidence; I think that God has drawn you here, by the power of his Holy Spirit.”

  Jobran shook his shoulders, “Actually, I came because you were just down the street. Plus, as I said in my letter, I’m interested in finding out what your church and denomination teaches about life after death. I’ve been trying to get a handle on what the various Pentecostal denominations teach, but it’s very confusing. About all I can figure out so far is that there seems to be some tension between various Pentecostal and Charismatic groups over a lot of issues.”

  Pastor Conley grimaced, and said, “We are proud to be a Pentecostal church; don’t try and lump us in with those so-called ‘charismatic’ churches. All of the ‘charismatics’ are coming from so-called ‘mainline’ liberal Protestant churches, as well as Roman Catholics; you’ve got people like Dennis Bennett from the Episcopalians, and that Father Francis MacNutt from the Roman Catholics—I hear MacNutt even got married, and left the Roman Catholic priesthood!” With a triumphant expression, he added, “We true Pentecostals hail from the ‘Latter Rain’ movement that started at Bethel College in Kansas, as well as the Azusa Street revival in Los Angeles, one hundred years ago.”

  Jobran had been frantically trying to take notes. “It’s obviously a lot more complicated than I thought.”

  Pastor Conley held up his Bible in one hand, and said in an assured voice, “Son, it’s really all very simple. You want to know what we believe about life after death?” He held up his Bible proudly in his hand, and said, “We believe what the Bible teaches: ‘It is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment.’” (Heb 9:27) He then lay his Bible down gently on the pew, and placed a firm hand on Jobran’s shoulder. “Let me ask you a question, Jobran. If you were to die today, do you have the personal assurance that you would go to heaven?”

  Jobran shook his head emphatically. “I definitely do not have that kind of ‘personal assurance.’ In fact, the whole issue is a matter of profound confusion to me. Sometimes, it seems like the more I study, the more confused I get.”

  Pastor Conley laughed gently and said, “Solomon said, ‘Much study is a weariness of the flesh.’” (Ecc 12:12.)

  “Solomon spoke wisely,” Jobran replied, nodding his head.

  Pastor Conley took up his Bible again, and said, “Let me talk over a few things with you, Jobran. Let me rephrase my question earlier: Do you believe that the Bible is God’s Word to us?”

  Jobran crossed his arms, and said, “In the way that you mean it, probably not. At least, I haven’t felt like the Bible has been that helpful to me during my time of need.”

  In a slightly chiding voice, Pastor Conley said, “Now, Jobran, let’s be honest, here: How much of the Bible have you ac
tually read?”

  “All of it,” Jobran said, looking Pastor Conley directly in the eyes. “Twice.”

  Nodding at this information, Pastor Conley said, “Well, then, let me see if I can point out a few things to you that maybe you missed the first and second time.” He motioned for Jobran to pick up the Bible he had handed him earlier, and said, “I want you to see all these things in the Bible for yourself, so you know that what I’m telling you isn’t just something that some tongues-talkin’ preacher is making up, but it’s all there in God’s Word. Do you suppose you can find the third chapter of the Book of Romans?” Jobran found it quickly, and Pastor Conley again seemed suitably impressed. “Can you read the 23rd verse for me?”

  Jobran read aloud, “For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.”

  In a deadly serious tone, Pastor Conley said, “Jobran, do you realize that the Bible tells us that we are all sinners, and that none of us is without fault in the eyes of the holy and perfect God?”

  Jobran said, “I certainly accept that we are all fallible people, and that we all do some things—lose our temper, act selfishly, and so on—that we shouldn’t do, and that we know we shouldn’t do. So if that’s what you mean by ‘Sin,’ then I guess I agree.” Immediately, however, he added, “But I’m not as certain as some people are, as to just what constitutes ‘sin.’”

  Firmly, Pastor Conley replied, “Sin is willful transgression against God; it is action or belief that is contrary to the laws and nature of God. In First John 3:4, it says, ‘for sin is the transgression of the law.’” Holding up his Bible again, he said, “The Bible tells us all about sin, as does the conscience that God gave us. Turn back to the 20th verse of Chapter 1 of Romans, will you, and read it?”

  Jobran read, “For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse.”

  “So that they are without excuse,” Pastor Conley repeated, emphatically. “Jobran, the Bible says we are all sinners, we are all guilty before God. And you know what the penalty of sin is? Chapter 6 tells us that ‘The wages of sin is death!’ Now, Jobran, I want you to read verse 23 in Chapter 6 for me.”

  Jobran read aloud, “For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”

  Enthusiastically, Pastor Conley said, “‘The gift of God is eternal life!’ Although we are all sinners and deserving of death, the Bible also tells us about the salvation that is achieved through God’s Son, Jesus. Will you read Acts 2:21 for me?”

  Finding it, Jobran read, “Whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.”

  “That’s right!” Pastor Conley said, half-rising from the pew in excitement, and almost shouting. “If you want to be saved, you only need to call upon the name of the Lord!”

  In an even tone, Jobran interjected, “And what if a person didn’t call upon the name of the Lord in the precise way that you understand it? For example, at the Laundromat where I wash my clothes, I found a tract that was left by another local Pentecostal church—part of the United Pentecostal Church denomination. They seemed to make a big point about the ‘name of the Lord’ being important. One thing that was important to them is apparently being baptized ‘In the name of Jesus Christ,’ rather than ‘In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost,’ for instance.”

  Pastor Conley looked as if cold water had been poured on him. “Stay away from that group,” he warned, in a voice of genuine alarm. “Those are so-called ‘Oneness’ people, who aren’t even Christian—they’re a cult, just as much as the Mormons and Jehovah’s Witnesses are. They teach the old Sabellian or ‘modalist’ heresy, and they reject the doctrine of the Holy Trinity—they say there is only one ‘person’ in the Godhead, which is Jesus—and they even deny the personhood of the Holy Spirit!”

  “My point, Pastor Conley, is just that there may more complexity to ‘calling on the name of the Lord’ than you were implying,” Jobran said. “But as I said in my letter, my major concern is about my wife, Sophia.”

  Pastor Conley asked bluntly, “Was she saved?”

  “She was a lifelong Catholic,” Jobran said, directly.

  Pastor Conley almost jumped, startled at this news. “You didn’t say that in your letter.” He thought for a moment, then asked, “Was she a faithful Roman Catholic?”

  Puzzled, Jobran said, “I’m not sure what you’re asking.”

  With an edge to his voice, Pastor Conley asked, “Did she follow all of the Popish doctrines of the Roman Catholic institution?” Seeing the confused look on Jobran’s face, he added, “For example, did she bring pagan images into your home?”

  “She hung a crucifix on our living room wall, if that’s the kind of thing that you mean,” Jobran replied.

  Pastor Conley shook his head sorrowfully, then continued, “Did she bow down to, or otherwise offer worship to idols?” Seeing Jobran’s look of incomprehension, he said in an exasperated voice, “Did she pray to statutes, for example?”

  Somewhat irritated himself, Jobran responded, “When she went to her church, they naturally had statutes of Jesus and Mary; and obviously, she prayed whenever she was in church.”

  “Are you a Roman Catholic?”

  “I was raised a liberal Protestant, in the United Church of Christ; but I’m kind of ‘inactive’ right now. I’m not too sure what I am right now, in terms of denominations or affiliations, except that I consider myself a Christian.”

  Pastor Conley nodded, appearing to force himself to calm down. “Look, Jobran: I’m sorry if I came across a little bit hard. I believe that there are some people who are Roman Catholics—and were probably raised that way—who are in ignorance of the true nature of the insidious doctrines taught by Rome. I also believe that there are some people among the Roman Catholics—especially in the Charismatic movement, where they sometimes attend genuine Christian services, and hear the Word preached—who do truly love Jesus and might actually be saved, because of their ignorance or lack of faithful adherence to the Popish doctrines.”

  Jobran shook his head, and said, “That’s certainly not the case here. Sophia was a faithful and believing Catholic, from her earliest childhood; she was certainly not in ignorance about Catholic doctrines. In fact, she had talked me into taking lessons for my own conversion to Catholicism after our marriage, and had me promise to raise all of our children as Catholics.”

  Pastor Conley looked horrified, as he shook his head sadly. “The Roman Catholic institution teaches a ‘works’ salvation. Jobran, although you seem to have read the Bible somewhat, it seems clear to me that you don’t understand what the Bible says about salvation. If you did, then you would understand that the only way to get to Heaven is to know God personally, through the saving work of his Son, Jesus. You must repent of your sins, and ask the Lord Jesus to come into your heart and save you from your sins.” He got up, lightly grasping Jobran’s arm, and indicated an altar rail that was directly in front of the pulpit. “Brother Winter, will you kneel with me and pray to receive the Lord Jesus right now? I want you to ask Jesus to come into your heart, and trust in him to save you from your sins.”

  Jobran resisted being pulled in the direction of the altar rail, and said with a look of disbelief, “And you think that that’s all there is to it, theologically?”

  In a more forceful voice, Pastor Conley said, “Brother, I’m not here to talk theology with you. Jesus said in Luke 10:42, ‘One thing is needful’—and for you, that one thing is that you need to get saved, right now!”

  Jobran shook his head, firmly. “I don’t think the whole matter of one’s eternal destiny can be distilled into such a simplistic formulation,” he replied, then adding, “Frankly, I have a lot of questions about theology, and I came here
hoping to find some answers.”

  “You don’t need to ask me these questions,” Pastor Conley said, still trying to move Jobran in the direction of the altar. “Once you’ve got Jesus in your heart, you can ask him all the questions you want, directly.”

  “Look, I’m from a different Christian tradition than you are,” Jobran said, trying to sound moderate and reasonable. “In the tradition I come from, we don’t kneel down, have altar calls, and so on.”

  In a sharp voice, Pastor Conley said, “If I can show you that the Bible teaches what I’m saying you need to do to be saved, will you believe it? I’m not asking you to believe me, or my doctrine, or my denomination: Will you believe what the Bible says, as the final authority on the matter?”

  Jobran shrugged his shoulders, and said, “Go ahead. I’m listening.”

  Pastor Conley opened his Bible, and read, “Revelation 3:20: Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him….” With a look of complete earnestness, he said to Jobran fervently, “Jesus is knocking at the door of your heart right now; he only wants you to invite him in…”

  Jobran interrupted, having found the passage that Pastor Conley was reading. “It says, “‘…if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.’ Where are you reading all of this ‘door of your heart’ stuff? What is the meaning of Jesus promising to ‘sup’ with you? And besides, wasn’t Jesus supposedly saying this to people that were already Christians, and who were in the Church?”

  Pastor Conley looked momentarily distracted by this response, and said, “Look, in the Oriental world, to ‘sup’ implied the most intimate form of communion. And the Church at Laodicea was ‘lukewarm,’ so Jesus said that he would spit them out of his mouth…”

  Jobran cut in sharply, and said, “But Jesus wasn’t saying this to an individual, telling him how to be saved, right?” When Pastor Conley made no immediate comment, he continued, “In fact, when the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he had to do to inherit eternal life, Jesus didn’t tell him to ‘trust in me,’ or ‘open the door of your heart to me,’ or anything like that—Jesus told him to obey the commandments, and to sell everything that he had, didn’t he?” (Mk 10:17-21)