“My Lord, your uncle Han Qing Hu once said you could discuss Sun Tzu and Wu Qi with him. Was he referring to the indirect and direct?”
Tang Taizong said: “How could Qing Hu know about the pinnacle of deploying indirect and direct? He only took the direct as direct, and indirect as indirect! He never knew about the ‘mutual changes of the direct and indirect into each other, the inexhaustible cycle.’”
太宗问：军队在进行分合变化的时候，奇正表现在哪里?
李靖答：善于用兵的人，无处不用正兵，无处不用奇兵，使敌人无法判断，所以正也能胜，奇也能胜。全军官兵，只知道胜利了，而不知道为什么能够取得胜利，如果不是把奇正变化灵活运用到了极点，怎能做到这样地步呢?由分合而产生奇正的变化只有孙武才能做到，吴起以下都比不上他。
太宗问：吴起用兵的方法怎样？
李靖答：请让我概略说明一下。魏武侯问吴起：两军对垒时,要知道敌方将领的才能，应该采用什么方法？吴起答：令勇敢的下级军官率领部队前往攻击，刚一交锋就败退，败退了也不要加以制止，借以观察敌军进攻的动作。 如敌人前进、停止都有节制，见到我军败退也不追击，这是敌将有智谋的表现。如果敌人全军进行追击，士卒行动毫无秩序，这是敌将没有才能的表现，要立即进击 不可迟疑。我认为吴起的方法大都是这一类的，不是象孙武所说”以’正’兵求合，而以’奇’兵求胜”的原则。
太宗说：你的舅父韩擒虎曾说，你可以和他谈论孙吴兵法，也是指奇正说的吗？
李靖答：擒虎怎能知道奇正变化的奥妙，他仅仅知道以奇为奇，以正为正罢了，从来不知道奇正相互变化循环无穷的道理。
Question 7
Tang Taizong said: “When the ancients approached enemy formations and then sent forth direct troops to attack where unexpected, were they also using the method of ‘mutual changes’ for indirect and direct troops?”
Li Jing said: “In antiquity, most battles were a question of minimal tactics, conquering those without any tactics, and of some minor degree of excellence conquering those without any capabilities. How can they merit being discussed as the ‘Art of War’? An example is Xie Xuan’s destructions of Fu Jian. It was not because of Xie Xuan’s excellence but probably Fu Jian’s incompetence.”[20]
Tang Taizong ordered the attending officers to find Xie Xuan’s biography and read it. After reading the biography, he said: “Fu Jian’s management in this area was not good.”[21]
Li Jing said: “I observe that Fu Jian’s biography records that ‘Qin’s army had all been broken and defeated, with only Mu Rong Chui’s single force still intact. Fu Jian the Qin king, leading more than a thousand cavalry, raced over to join him. Chui’s son Bao advised Chui to kill Fu Jian but without results. From this, one sees that when the Qin’s armies were in turbulence, only Mu Rong Chui’s forces remained intact, so it is obvious that Fu Jian was probably betrayed by Chui’s treachery. Now to be betrayed by others and yet still hope to conquer the enemy, is that not difficult? Thus I say that men such as Fu Jian lacked tactics.”
Tang Taizong said: “Sun Tzu said that one who plans extensively will conquer one who does less planning, so thus we know some planning will conquer no planning. All affairs are thus.”
太宗问：古人临阵出奇，攻敌不意，这也是奇正变化的法则吗？
李靖答：古代的战斗，多是一些稍有智谋的人战胜没有智谋的人，一些稍有能力的人战胜没有能力的人，这些人哪能谈得上懂兵法呢?如东晋时谢玄在淝水击破了苻坚，不是谢玄善于用兵，而是苻坚不善于用兵的缘故。
太宗命侍臣拣出谢玄的传记阅览以后说：苻坚哪些地方处理不善呢？
李靖答：我看《苻坚载记》说：淝水之战时，秦各军都溃败，只有幕容垂一军[三万人]独能保持完整。符坚率领残兵千余骑，来到慕容全的营地，慕容垂的儿子慕容宝劝垂杀坚，垂未杀。从泰军溃败和慕容垂一军独能保持完整的情况来看，苻坚被慕容垂所陷害就是很明显了。既为人所陷害，还想战胜敌人，不就难了吗。所以我说，没有智谋的就是苻坚这一类的人。
太宗说：《孙子》说策划多的可以战胜策划少的，这样看来，策划少的就可以战胜没有策划的了。一切事情都是这样。
Question 8
Tang Taizong said: “The Yellow Emperor’s ‘Art of War’ has been transmitted by previous generations as the ‘Classic of Grasping the Direct’ and as the ‘Classic of Grasping Opportunities’ as well. What do you have to say about this?”
Li Jing said: “The pronunciation of the character ‘direct’ is similar to that for ‘opportunity’. Thus some have transmitted the title as the latter, but the meaning is the same. If we investigate the actual writing, it says: ‘Four formations as indirect, four formations as direct. The remaining forces are for grasping opportunity.’ Here the character ‘direct’ means troops, because pronunciation of the character ‘direct’ is the similar to that for ‘opportunity’. My humble opinion is that in war there are opportunities everywhere, so we should stress the word ‘grasping’ in speaking about it. It ought to be focused to excess; then it would be correct.
“Now indirect troops receive their mission from the ruler, while direct troops are ordered forth by the general. Sun Tzu said: ‘When orders are regularly enforced and used to train the soldiers, they will be obedient.’ This means that orders for indirect troops are what are received from the ruler. Moreover, he says: ‘The employment of the troops cannot be spoken of beforehand.’ and ‘there are commands from the ruler which are not accepted.’ These are orders that the general himself issues.
“For the generals: If they employ indirect tactics without any direct ones, they are defensive generals. If they employ direct tactics without any indirect ones, they are aggressive generals. If they employ both, they are generals to preserve the state. Thus ‘grasping opportunity’ and ‘grasping the direct’ are not fundamentally the same methods. Students of military strategy thoroughly understand this point!”
太宗问：黄帝的兵法，一般传说叫”握奇文”，或者叫”握机文”，究竟怎样说法？
李靖答：”奇” 可以读为”机”，所以有人将”奇”传为”机”，它们的意义是一样的。按《握奇经》上说：”[天、地、风、云]四阵为正，[龙、虎、鸟、蛇]四阵为奇，剩下的’奇’〔由大将掌握]，称为’握机’”。所谓”奇”就是剩余的兵力[中军]，因”奇”可读为”机”，〔所以有人把”握奇”当作”握机”。]我认为用兵无处不是战机，哪能只就掌握而言，应当理解为掌握机动力量[随机应便]才是正确的。正兵是受命于君主的，奇兵是：决定于大将的。兵法说：”平时能认真贯彻命令、教育士卒，士卒就能养成服从的习惯。” 这是说兴兵作战的正兵是受命于君主的。又说：”作战行动，君主不能预为约束。君主的命令如不适应战场情况也可以不接受。”这是说[临敌制胜的]奇兵是决定于大将的。大凡将领只知用正而不知用奇的，是墨守成规的将领；只知用奇而不知用正的，是鲁 莽从事的将领；奇正都运用得当的，才是辅国的良将。所以说”握机”、”握奇”，本来没有两种方法，在于学者融会贯通罢了。
Question 9
Tang Taizong said: “The Classic of Grasping Opportunities states: ‘The number of formations is nine, with the center formations under the commanding general’s control. The four sides and eight directions are all regulated by the center unit. Within the main formation, reside smaller formations; within the platoons, reside smaller platoons. They can take the front to be the rear, the rear to be the front. When advancing, they do not run quickly; when withdrawing, they do not race off. There are four heads, eight tails. Wherever they are struck is made the head. If the enemy attacks the middle, the adjoi
ning two heads will both come to the rescue. The number begins with five and ends with eight.’ What does all this mean?”
Li Jing said: “Zhuge Liang used stones to make eight rows. The layout for the square formation is similar. When I instructed the army, we invariably began with this formation. What generations have passed down as ‘The Classic of Grasping Opportunities’ only includes a rough outline.”[22]
Tang Taizong said: “Heaven, Earth, wind, clouds, dragons, tigers, birds, and snakes – what is the meaning behind these eight formations?”
Li Jing said: “There was an error made by those who transmitted them to later generations. The ancients wanted to secretly conceal which orders were given to which troops, so they craftily created these eight names. The eight formations were originally one, then being divided into eight. For example, ‘Heaven’ and ‘Earth’ originated in flag destinations; ‘wind’ and ‘clouds’ originated in the pennant names. ‘Dragons,’ ‘tigers’, ‘birds’ and ‘snakes’ originated in the distinctions of the platoons and squads. Later generations erroneously transmitted them. If they were cleverly creating formations in the image of animals, why would they just stop at eight?”
太宗问：握机阵分为九个阵， [外有四正四奇，]中央的一阵由大将掌握，周围各阵都以他的号令为准。大阵之中包括了许多小阵，大队之中包括了许多小队。可把前阵作为后阵，后阵作为前阵。由于进退都是齐一的，所以进不速奔，退不急走。四头八尾，敌人触犯的部分都可作为首部，敌若冲击中间，首尾都来救应。布阵的数目最初是五个，以后演变到八个。 这是什么道理呢？
李靖答：诸葛亮用石头纵横排列成八行[垒成八升阵]，这和[黄帝九军]方阵之法一样。我过去训练部队，必先教会这种这阵法。世人所传的握机文，仅仅说明了它的概略罢了。
太宗问：以天、地、风、云，龙、虎、鸟、蛇，作为八阵的名称，它的含义是什么？
李靖答：这是后人传说的错误。古人为了保守这一阵法的秘密，所以故意设立八种奇怪的名称。其实八阵本来是一个整体，不过区分为八个部分罢了。象天阵、地阵是根据旗号命名的，风阵、云阵是根据幡名命名的，龙、虎、鸟、蛇各阵是根据部队代号而命名的。后人传[龙阵象龙，虎阵象虎……]，如果各降都要假设各种物象，其何止八种呢？
Question 10
Tang Taizong said: “The numbers of formations begin with the five and ends with eight, so if they were not set up as images of animals, then they are really ancient military systems. Would you please explain them for me?”
Li Jing said: “I observe that the Yellow Emperor governed the army according to the methods by which he first established the ‘village and well’ system. Thus the ‘well’ was divided by four roads, and eight families occupied it. Its shape was that for the Chinese character for ‘well’ (井), so nine squares were opened therein. Five were used for formations, four were empty. This explains why the numbers started with five.
“The middle was left vacant to be occupied by the commanding general, while around the four sides the various companies were interconnected, so this is what is meant by the number of formation ends with eight. As for the changes and transformations to control the enemy: intermixed and turbulent, their fighting appeared chaotic, but their method was not disordered. In a nice flow of movement, from their deployment of circular transformation to square formation, their formations are not dispersed. This is what is meant by ‘when they dispersed and become eight, reunite and again become one’.”
Tang Taizong said: “The Yellow Emperor’s governance of the army was profound indeed! Even if later generations have men with the wisdom of Heaven and great planning ability, none will be able to exceed his scope! After him, who came near to him?”
Li Jing replied: “When the Zhou Dynasty first flourished, Jiang Ziya substantially copied his methods. He began at the Qi state capital by establishing the well acreage system, constructing three hundred chariots, and training three hundreds Tiger Guards in order to establish a military organization. They practiced advancing ‘six paces, seven paces’ making ‘six attacks, seven attacks,’ so as to teach them battle tactics. When he deployed the army at Mu Ye, with only a hundred officers as vanguard, Jiang Ziya controlled the army and established his military achievements. With 45,000 men, he conquered King Zhou’s mass of 700,000.
“In the Zhou dynasty, ‘Sima Fa’ was based upon Jiang Ziya. When Jiang Ziya died, the people of Qi (岐) obtained his bequeathed strategies. When Duke Huan became hegemon to the Zhou Kingdom, he relied on Guan Zhong who again cultivated the Jiang Ziya methods. Their army was referred to as a ‘restrained and governed’ and all the feudal Lords submitted.”
Tang Taizong said: “The Confucians mostly say that Guan Zhong[23] was merely the minister of a hegemon, so they truly do not know that his military methods were founded upon the ancient military system. Zhuge Liang had the talent to be a king’s right hand man, and he compared himself with Guan Zhong and Yue Yi. From this we know that Guan Zhong was also the true talent to a king. But when the Zhou declined, the king could not use him, so he allied with the state of Qi, under Duke Huan, and mobilized an army there.”
Li Jing bowed twice and said: “Your Majesty is indeed wise, since you understand people well. Being able to serve you, giving my best until death, I would not be ashamed to meet the ancient Worthy (ancestors).
“I would like to speak about Guan Zhong’s methods for organizing the state of Qi. He divided Qi to compose three armies. Five families comprised the fundamental unit, so five men made up a squad of five. Ten fundamental family units composed a hamlet, so fifty men composed a platoon. Four hamlets constituted a village, so 200 composed a company. Ten villages constituted a town, so 2,000 composed one battalion. Five towns made up an army, so 10,000 men composed one army. It “all proceeded from the Sima Fa’ means that one army consists of five battalions, while one battalion consists of five companies. In actual fact, these are all bequeathed methods of Jiang Ziya.”
太宗问：布阵的数目最初是五个，最终演变到八个，非因物象而设，其实这是古代的制度，你可以谈谈这个问题。
李靖答：黄帝最初实行井田制，创立”丘井之法” [以治理人民]，并根据井田制建立了军事制度。一井用四条道路分开，八家环绕，共处一井，[中间作为公田，]它的形状象个井字，分开则为九块方地。[开 始，以前、后、左、右、中]五处用作布阵，四个角落作为空地，这就是所谓阵数起于五个的由来；其后空出中央部分，由大将居中指挥，以前后左右及四个角落相连环绕在四周[成为八阵]，这就是所谓阵数演变成八个的由来。等到分合变化打击敌人的时候，则旌旗纷纷，人马纭纭，战斗似乱而阵法不乱，部队行动，有如奔流，由方阵变为圆阵，而阵势仍然不散；这就是所谓分散开就成为八小阵，合起来就成为一大阵的说法。
太宗问；黄帝建立的军事制度，意义很深奥啊！后人虽有很高的智慧，很深的谋略，也没有能够超出他的范围的，从他以后又有谁能继承他的兵法呢？
李靖答；周朝初兴的时候，太公就继承了黄命的制度，开始在歧都建立井田制度，并召集兵车三百辆，虎贲三百人，以建立周朝的军制。训练时，以六步七步、六伐七伐教练战法。牧野之战，太公先以勇士百人进行挑战， [继之以主力冲击，]成就了武功，于是以四万五千人战胜了商纣的七十万军队。周《司马法》是根据太公所立的制度而作，太公死后，齐国人得到他的遗法。至齐桓公称霸于天下，用管仲为宰相，重新整理太公的军事制度，使齐国军队成为节制之师，天下诸侯没有不畏服的。
太宗说：儒家多说管仲不过是霸者的谋臣罢了，殊不知管仲的兵法就是根据周朝的制度来的。诸葛亮有辅佐帝王的才能，常将自岫比作管仲、乐毅，由此可�
��管仲也有辅佐帝王的才能。但在周室衰微的时候，周王不能任用他，所以凭借齐桓公兴师以匡正天下。
李靖再拜说：陛下圣明，知人如此深刻，老臣虽尽力至死亦必求无愧于先贤。我愿谈谈管仲治理齐国的方法：他将齐国的人民区分为三部分，立为三军。[行政上]以五家为一轨，所以[兵制上相应以]五人为一伍；十轨为一里，所以五十人为一小戎；四里为一连，所以二百人为一卒；十连为一乡，所以二十人为一旅； 五乡为一师，所以万人为一军。这也是根据《司马法》一师分为五旅，一旅分为五卒的意义演变来的。其实这些都是来源于太公的遗法。
Question 11
Tang Taizong said: “People say that the ‘Sima Fa’ was composed by Sima Rangju. Is this true or not?”
Li Jing said: “According to the Biography of Rangju, in ‘Records of the Grand Historian’, he excelled in commanding the army at the time of Duke Jing of Qi, defeating the forces of Jin and Yan. Duke Jing honored him with the post of Commander of Horses (known as Sima), and from then on he was called Sima Rangju. His sons and grandsons were then surnamed Sima. In the time of Duke Wei of Qi, they sought out and talked about the methods of the ancient Commanders of the Horse and also narrated what Rangju had studied. This subsequently became a book in ten chapters called ‘Methods of the Sima’, or ‘Sima Rangju’. Moreover, what has been transmitted from the military strategists and remains today is divided into four categories: ‘balance of power and plans’, ‘disposition and strategic power’, ‘yin and yang’, and ‘techniques and crafts’. They all come out of the ‘Sima Fa’.”
Tang Taizong said: “During the Han, Zhang Liang and Han Xin ordered the compilation of books on military art. Altogether, there were 182 thinkers, but after they collated and edited them to select the important ones, they settled on thirty five. Now we have lost what they transmitted. What about this?”
Military Strategy Classics of Ancient China Page 49
